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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer? The overall hashkafa of the camps that are opening is:
We will not allow Yidishe Neshamos to wander the streets during the summer. We are opening come what may.

I believe that many camp directors (and I assume the Daas Torah guiding them) feel that there is an element of yaharog v'al yaavor when it comes to keeping kids in camp and off the streets. They'll do whatever it takes to keep the kids in a kosher environment, even if the entire country turns against us.

June 23, 2020, 10:29:16 PM
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
I'm stunned that you actually believe that. ד' עבירות חמורות.

I'm stunned that you actually thought that I personally share these beliefs.

I believe that the directors (and the daas torah guiding them) believe that.
I believe that they believe that keeping teens on the streets all summer is tantamount to gilui arayos, which is one of the gimel avairos chamuros.
I believe that they believe that the legal or PR risks of opening are nothing compared to the risks of not opening.

June 24, 2020, 08:57:15 AM
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
I don't know what you personally believe, but I can't believe that any posek is standing behind these principles.

1. The kids are being as used pawns and no rational parent wants to see their kid getting sent home because their camp was shut down by the local Department of Health.
2. If anyone actually believed that this was an issue of gilui arayos the entire community would be funding sending kids from poor homes to summer camp every summer. Even if camps would have opened in a normal (non-Covid) year, there would be many, many kids who would not be in camp due to financial circumstances.
3. The legal/PR risks are nothing compared with the abject chillul Hashem created by a premeditated violation of the law. This is not people not wearing a mask at funeral or not obeying social distance guidelines. These would be organized summer camps choosing to intentionally violate the law.

You clearly don't understand the chasidishe mindset.
1. Yes, the rabanim DO believe that leaving kids on the streets in the summer is tantamount to gilui arayos.
2. Yes, the chasidishe kehilos DO set up funds so that kids from poor homes can go to summer camp every summer. In fact, most chasidishe camps provide scholarships to those who can't afford it.
3. Once again, you clearly don't understand the chasidishe mindset. Chilul Hashem is not in the lexicon. "They are anyways all antisemites or zionists, so who cares."

June 24, 2020, 10:07:57 AM
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer? Some perspective is in order.

The issue of opening camps is not just a question of whether we will have a good time this summer. There is so much more that's involved, which is why rabbonim, YES RABBONIM, are taking this very seriously.

I personally know a 15 year old girl who is struggling and wavering between staying in school and trying hard to succeed or dropping out and going OTD. Many people are working with her, and all agree that if she is in camp this year with her good friends, the good experience will have a positive effect on her. If she is on the streets, she will go down.

There are countless other teens in the same situation.

In today's world, for many teens camp is no longer a luxury. It is a necessity. The Rabbonim believe this, and they are willing to do whatever it takes, including using every conceivable loophole, to make this work. They believe there is an element of yaahoreg v'al yaaover to this. Obviously no one is getting killed. But the point is that they are willing to do everything possible short of getting arrested to open camps this year, even if it means losing millions in government funding or making a PR scene.

Imagine a drug addict or alocoholic who must get into rehab or he will destroy his family. If the governor decides to close the rehabs, you will do everything you can to figure out a way, short of getting arrested, to somehow open the rehab. It is a necessity not a luxury. In today's world generally, and specifically after 3 months of COVID 19 lockdowns, many teens need camp and cannot be allowed to wander the streets. For many of these teens, its a mental health crisis. This is why Rabbonim are doing everything they can, short of getting arrested, to open camps.

June 25, 2020, 09:23:49 AM
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Re: Uman, Uman, Rosh Hashana??? If Ukraine was a US state and the governor was a D, the bleeding heart liberals would be telling us how bad the Breslovers are for going against the science and traveling to Uman. Boruch Hashem Ukraine is a separate country and it does't affect Trump's reelection so no one cares.
June 25, 2020, 03:52:38 PM
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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
I'm neither pro nor con, just trying to understand both sides.
I do understand the medical and scientific arguments to close sleepaway camps.
I don't understand the argument that the only two options are sleepaway camps and roaming the streets.

78 - Number of years frum children have been able to attend Camp Agudah and other sleepaway camps
3255 - Number of years since Matan Torah that frum children have NOT had that option

It's clearly not a religious requirement.  And Cuomo, who grew up with orthodox Jewish neighbors is aware of that.

If children, parents, and teachers today cannot imagine a summer without sleepaway camp, that seems to be a failure of the imagination.  Perhaps the more creative people out there can help them work out other options.

For millennia, there was no rehab for drug addicts. Why do we suddenly need rehabs? Why didn't the Governor close all the rehabs to prevent the spread of COVID-19.
What about nursing homes? For millennia the human species survived without it.

Of course we need rehabs and we need nursing homes, thousands of years of history notwithstanding. We also need camps. After 3 months of keeping kids indoors, there is a mental health crisis and teens need camp.

For religious Jews, the mental health crisis is causing many kids to go OTD. So in addition to the mental health crisis, there is a religious crisis.

You may not be aware of this crisis. Many people are not aware of the sexual abuse crisis, or the substance abuse crisis. But these crises are real. Just ask your local ortho school principal. Or any parent of teens.

June 25, 2020, 05:15:56 PM
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Re: Stimulus Checks
"If we continue spending money we don't have, we are doomed."

I don't want the new bill to be anywhere near $2 Trillion. In fact, I only want it to be $1,200 for me. Everyone else should realize that our country just doesn't have the money.

July 24, 2020, 11:20:36 AM
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