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Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
1. It will be behind us by then.
2. They say the summer will kill the virus.
3. The camp is quarantined in it self.

Which camp do you know of has the insurance or medical capabilities to risk an outbreak?

April 08, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
Re: Will there be Sleep Away Camp this summer?
Which camp do you know of has the insurance or medical capabilities to risk an outbreak?

Aside from this, what makes anyone think the schools won't be pushing summer school to make up missed days? How will they move kids up a year without having met minimum educational requirements?

April 08, 2020, 08:13:41 AM
Re: Impact of Covid-19 on Tri-State Orthodox Jewish Community I believe that there are many factors which will render our communities as outliers in this pandemic. The first, and biggest, factor is our community life. A BP family with 8 kids can realistically interact with 2 yeshivos, a girls high school, 2 elementary schools, and a playgroup all within 24 hours, in addition to up to 3 shuls and a large simcha. Assuming very modest average numbers of 100 kids per school, 30 per shul, and 150 per simcha, that family has interacted with almost 750 people (giving overlap) within their average 24 hour period. I think you'd be hard pressed to find that reach in the outside world. Multiply that by "x" amount of families, add in Purim, and the government not taking it seriously enough until after a large percentage of our population was infected, and I think you may need to find a different Chol HaMoed project. 

Another data point that will skew the Jewish community's numbers vs the rest of the world is the elderly population. The interaction we have with our elderly in community and home settings, IMO is far greater than the average population. The amount of deaths we've seen from our greatest generation (75+) is unfortunately a huge percentage of our overall Covid-19 fatalities.

April 12, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
You should do what ur Rav tells you.

But think about it for a minute.

A Grocery Store is OK.
WallMart OK.
Target OK.

Shull not ok.

Maybe we shall be open with proper cleaning and distancing guidance in place where enforcement is stricter then USPS or Target.

Once upon a time, I had similar logic I applied to everything rabbonim said... If you want to play that game, it's a very different conversation.

April 12, 2020, 01:29:22 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
By government own reasoning this will end with heard immunity. If any community has it, it's ours.

False. There is no known immunity, just a theory based on other diseases. The rate of reinfection has already rendered this theory irrelevant.

April 12, 2020, 01:36:29 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
Most doctors just disagree with your "theory".

Matzah got you constipated? Find me a doctor who knows what makes you immune to this virus.

April 12, 2020, 01:40:31 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
I know the Rov of my shul and a few of other shuls as well, are keeping the shuls to themselves. They have a private shul, mikvah, and Sifrei Torah for them and their children. Technically speaking, there is nothing wrong or risky about having a minyan if done properly. The fear is that it won't be done properly.

Two issues with this.

1) Even if this minyan is being done properly, what happens when people see this and decide they can do it, too, without taking all the precautions?
2) What about Kavod HaTorah? How many people will now lose respect for this Rov and all that he stands for because they can't follow their own psak and lead by example?

April 12, 2020, 03:50:00 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
Total Fake News.

Dr Fauci himself said that like other coronavirus diseases it's highly highly unlikely to get reinfected.

The anecdotal evidence about people getting reinfected is most likely people who never cleared it from their system (that's another unanswered question, how long it can stay in a person)

& the Herd Immunity is also a real thing that countries have adopted & then abandoned when they realized the cost to human life

This getting waaay off topic, but here are some thoughts on your post.

First, Fauci has said in multiple interviews that what you hear him say in the press conferences is somewhere between the truth and what he needs to say to keep Trump happy. Even if he did say it, I'm not taking his word at face value.

Second, herd immunity is misleading in it's name, and therefore grossly misunderstood. The theory behind it is, if most of a population is immune to a certain disease, the likelihood of a non-immune person coming in contact with a carrier of that disease is greatly reduced, thereby reducing the non-immune person's risk for catching that disease. It's the reason we vaccinate. If 90%+ people are vaccinated and "protected" against getting a disease, say measles, then the other 10% of people have a much lower risk of catching it (ie. protecting "the herd"). The reason it doesn't apply in our current situation is three-fold: a) we don't actually know if having had the disease makes you immune, as illustrated by both the re-infection rate and by the inconsistency in findings of anti-bodies of those previously infected, b) we don't have solid data on the length of contagiousness for this, as illustrated by tests showing viral shedding for weeks after becoming asymptomatic, and c) herd immunity relies on a certain percentage of the population having immunity, which in our current situation is something we cannot be certain of or control with a vaccine.

I said there is no known immunity, as it is currently only a theory. I also said that given the circumstances, as explained above, this theory is currently irrelevant. That's not to say it's wrong or will never be relevant, but it doesn't apply to anyone right now.

April 12, 2020, 05:31:52 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
Please stay out of this discussion. You'll never understand. Thank you.

Uncalled for, and he isn't wrong.

April 12, 2020, 06:28:29 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now?
I don't want to misunderstand. You are saying if what your rabbanim says violates the law you will follow the rabbanim and not the our constitution?

I feel like you've had this conversation before...

April 12, 2020, 06:45:08 PM
Re: Is your Shul Secretly Open Right Now? I think I need a support group. I get so much anxiety that such stupidity exists, but I keep reading these shul threads like I'm going to find some good info or maybe fix some of the stupid. It's like a deeply destructive cycle. And then I dream of hamsters and bleach and minyanim of people who don't know they're dead yet.
April 12, 2020, 10:52:23 PM
Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim CV's hamster got a hold of some hair dye...
April 12, 2020, 11:13:17 PM
Re: Corona virus and your shul
I could tell you that @yuneeq, @chevron, and others saved a lot of people through posting here.


April 13, 2020, 12:21:05 AM
Re: Coronavirus Victims Charity Pages
These pages break my heart. But how do you ensure transparency?

Each page is raising 500k. How do these families and trustees ensure the funds are managed and distributed properly?

I had similar thoughts, but in times like these, give first and worry about the other stuff later.

April 13, 2020, 01:45:30 AM
Re: What are you doing with the family to keep busy during your stay-at-home?
My daughters disagree on this and in the end settled on the way they came out.

Speaking of Marvel movies... I'd watch CV's origin story. Mild-mannered Midwestern gentleman living the American dream ends up with a motley crew of Jewish keyboard warriors. Chaos and hilarity ensues.

April 13, 2020, 08:39:28 AM
Re: Corona virus and your shul For me, I cannot point to a single post that did it for me. I saw consistent messaging that was backed up with sources, which led me to do my own research. A huge benefit of this forum was the ability to get information through other members from a wide variety of sources I would not have necessarily checked or had access to. Hearing how others were handling it, the tips and tricks, the research, the planning, the stocking up of certain supplies, all of these helped immensely in creating my family's own plan of action.

Regarding @CountValentine's question, the answer is yes, to a certain degree. "With great power comes great responsibility." Those who wield influence and power need to be cognizant of the ramifications of their words and actions. That means taking the time to properly research a topic before speaking authoritatively on it. By the same token, people need to take individual responsibility in vetting who they respect and who they get their information from. They need to verify information they hear and not just accept things blindly.

April 13, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
Hashem literally sent us to our corners for misbehaving . If we don't listen, He'll take away our internet too.

Your signature has taken on a new meaning for me

April 13, 2020, 12:21:02 PM
Re: PSA @Dan Feature request: a spam button, to make certain threads disappear.
April 13, 2020, 12:55:32 PM
What is not having toilet paper a punishment for ?

Being full of...

April 13, 2020, 01:55:40 PM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
What if he's right

He's not. Italy is over 70 days, as are other countries. China and S Korea are seeing a resurgence. The examples he gave of countries that didn't hamper their economies and are fine are also misguided. Singapore and Taiwan were both prepared at a government level and citizen level due to their exposure to previous viruses, such as SARS. They invested heavily in stockpiles and preparedness strategies, and citizens were trained in proper protocols from the last time, ensuring widespread compliance.

He's essentially saying Bibi overreacted in hindsight, whereas if Bibi had done what he's suggesting from the beginning, we'd have a thread for Israeli administration blunders and accountability for the staggering death toll.

April 13, 2020, 02:06:31 PM
Re: Interesting Articles: COVID-19 Edition
BREAKING: Man phones brother, discuss third brother stricken with Covid-19

(whoa if true)

Really? Are we supposed to cheer?

If it means a little less animosity in this world? Something positive coming out of an all around horrible situation? Sure.

April 13, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
Re: Coronavirus Victims Charity Pages
If a new cause is added to the wiki, please add a date it was added.

Donated 18 to all causes in the wiki.

Donated $18 to Fendel..
 Will see what we can do for the other ones..

 Really beautiful thread! All i could say "Mee kiamcha yisroel"! Really Really beautiful board! And even more beautiful those who are willing to match the donations!

Counting these, we're at $610 being matched, plus any that were sent privately. For all the cr@p on these boards, I'm happy that this is how I'm spending my Corona time.

April 13, 2020, 05:05:27 PM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
Why is USA hit so hard? We are less than 5% of the world population and many times that in number of deaths.

I don't believe that to be true. I think we just have the most accurate and up to date reporting of deaths.

April 13, 2020, 05:40:10 PM
Re: Stimulus Checks
Sorry not following. I was asking if those in jail for the last 20 years are eligible for the stimulus checks?

Asking for a friend...

April 13, 2020, 06:40:50 PM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread We've gone through this before, and there are no good numbers to work with. I'll try to sum it up.

The issue with confirmed cases starts with our numbers in the US. We know most people with the virus didn't get tested. We also know that the accuracy of the tests has been reported to be as low as 50-60%. Both os these things are leading to greatly underreported confirmed cases here. To then compare our inaccurate numbers to those of other countries, who are administrating different tests in different ways and have a plethora of their own issues... let's just say it's very far from scientific.

Deaths are a little more accurate, but not by much. There are 2 main issues with comparing US deaths with other countries. The first is accuracy. The US has pretty accurate statistics on deaths, even those at home, but they aren't complete. While some other countries also have accurate death records, they are a tiny minority. Most countries don't have the infrastructure to report accurately on a good day, and definitely not during a crisis. The second issue with death numbers is that each country has their own standard for what they consider a Covid-19 related death. The US has the broadest definition. If you die in the US and Covid-19 is a factor, you count. Cancer, heart attack, kidney issue, degenerative disease - doesn't matter. If covid-19 played any kind of part, it counts. Other countries have a very wide variety of definitions, and they are more likely to have narrower criteria.

In other words, to do a comparative study, you need to compare apples to apples. We don't even know how many apples we have to compare to their oranges, cherries, or bananas.

April 14, 2020, 04:36:13 AM
Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
I'm ready to become an anti-semite too. I walk out my front door, I live in middle of the block, and a guy who lives across the avenue on the next block is davening in my front yard with a street minyan!!! They brought out a table for kriyas hatorah. I just cant anymore. I ask him to leave and he starts pacing back and forth on the sidewalk right in front of the house...which I of course dont own or control. Yesterday, one of these idiots was davening under a porch on someone elses property due to the rain, knowing that those people werent home for yom tov. Yes I am ready to go full blown anti semite.

Come to FL. You get to complain about NY Jews all the time.

April 14, 2020, 09:47:09 AM
Re: Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
This coming from a state that allowed Spring break. What is FL's state moto? Stupid tries to fix stupid?  :P

"Let stupid reign! And try to take their money..."

April 14, 2020, 10:40:34 AM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread I can't find the interview, so I'm going to retract what I said.

I also "mis-spoke" in saying "what you hear him say in a WH press briefing." It should have said "what you hear said in a WH press briefing," which I believe is a much less controversial statement.

April 14, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Re: Places that have necessities still in stock
Wow BMG is all out! This and porch ban a 180!

For all the bashing about late responses, it's very important to give credit where it is due. BMG and the Lakewood community has stepped up in a very big way. Kol hakavod!

April 14, 2020, 01:06:00 PM
Re: Places that have necessities still in stock
They have been basically saying this since the state  emergency orders.

Some are content to say it once and let it be. The repeated publicity and additional layers of specific details are to be commended.

April 14, 2020, 01:07:52 PM
Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
I contemplate my mortality every time I engage in one of these threads

A little bleach to the eyes never killed anyone...

April 14, 2020, 01:12:20 PM
Re: Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
@CountValentine what is your proposal?
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?

Let's hear it.

Just a few ideas...

1) 2 week national stay-at-home order, with individual states determining which businesses are essential in their state.
2) Close all airports and trains, and ban inter-country and interstate travel.
3) Make masks mandatory for anyone who is more than 1000 feet from their residence, or in any public place.
4) Offer tax breaks to any business that keeps employees working from home.
5) Give tax breaks and/or partial student loan forgiveness to any and all frontline responders.
6) Subsidize delivery services which meet certain criteria in safe practices and people served.
7) Offer tax incentives to all businesses that come up with re-open plans which keep customers out of stores (curbside, delivery, etc).

April 14, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
Re: Traveling from NY to Miami FL
Any tips?


April 20, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
Re: When do you think International travel will resume? The eleventy-third of Junetober.
April 20, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
Re: When do you think International travel will resume?
For all the sarcastic people out there, seems like Quarantine hit you hard.
I've invested alot in arranging things to be able to take off and backpack around the world with my family.
To clarify, we are backpacking for a few months with a fluid itinerary , which basically means country hopping at our convenience,  so if one had to bet on it , which countries/continent would make the most sense to start with and when?
Im venturing to say July.

I don't want you to think I'm attacking you, because I really don't think you meant this post to be insensitive in any way. I understand that you live in your reality, and I commend you for being in a position to do this with your family.

That being said, take a look at the other threads on this board. People are sitting shiva. People are on ventilators. The tehillim list is huuuge. People's businesses are gutted, no income, struggling to pay their bills and feed their families. Even if yours was a legitimate question, this is not the place nor the time.

And this is the reason for the sarcasm: it's not even a remotely legitimate question. There is no data anywhere that anyone in the world can point to that will give you a hint at a chance of an educated guess. You have a better chance of an answer if you ate tea leaves and read them when they came out the other end.

Again, I have no problem with where you are in life. I even aspire to be there one day myself. However, the entire premise if this question is absurd.

April 20, 2020, 01:53:32 PM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
If you want to stay home to ensure you don't catch the coronavirus that's your choice.

Car accidents contagious now?

ETA: when you're a hazard on the road, they take away your license, too.

April 21, 2020, 12:36:35 PM
Re: The science of COVID-19
They also don't seem to take the social distancing as seriously (based on the number of violations reported in Newark and some news stories about the outreach some are doing to convince them to social distance).

Sorry, I'm calling this out. We can't complain about anti-Semites projecting the actions of individuals on all Jews if we're going to turn around and do it to others. Play by our own rules.

April 21, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
Re: The science of COVID-19
We’re talking generalities.  Not saying ALL are doing it. Just that such behavior by some, lead to a measurable outcome for the group.

Orthodox Jews have a higher infection rate because they ignore social distancing measures (based on the number of calls to the police and news stories about shuls and schools being open).

How do you like me now?

April 21, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
Re: The science of COVID-19
The surgeon general who is African American has implied this as well.

I'm not discriminating against anyone. I am giving an answer to a question asked.

"Well, my lawyer is Jewish and he said it himself. I'm not racist or discriminating, I'm just answering a question."

Rule of thumb: if you can't interchange "x" race with "Jews" and not get offended, you probably shouldn't say it.

April 22, 2020, 12:36:23 AM
Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

We keep quoting stats about how Lakewood has so many fewer cases than some other place in NJ or the US as if it's going to stop anti-Semitism. Haters gonna hate. The narrative just changes to, "Those Jews spread that thing around, used up all the hospital beds, and left the rest of us to suffer their consequences."

April 22, 2020, 12:43:25 AM
Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
They won’t be getting extra TV revenue those contracts are already done for many years to come

I'm sure they can work out additional marketing contracts if they're going to have such a captive audience. Presuming their sponsors haven't gone belly up, yet...

April 22, 2020, 08:18:18 AM
Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
Advertising isn’t such a hot market currently. No one is buying anything

-1. The news of the end of the world has been grossly exaggerated. The earth still turns.

April 22, 2020, 08:39:12 AM
Re: Are you using DDMS more these days?
You want more covid-19 threads?  :)

"Hang on, let me wake the hamster."

April 22, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
And especially if the fans of PGA are in the highest risk bracket of covid.....

They're all Afro-Hispanic Ultra Orthodox Jews?

April 22, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
I'm not sure that's the argument. Isn't the argument that there is a certain threshold for shutting down society - I think everyone agrees to that. If we lockdown we'll have less deaths from flu and car accidents, right? If the death rate of this virus was .001%, no one would be advocating for a shutdown, right? (It would mean 3300 deaths in the US). If Sweden ends up not upending society and 3000 deaths, did they make the wrong decision? I'm not sure it's a question of having a higher value of life. Lockdowns have impacts on people's wellbeing as well. What is the shortened life expectancy if you gain 20 pounds? What about the emotional toll this takes on families. If we have an extra 500 gitin because of this, does that not mean something? What about if 50000 people lose their homes because they lost their livelihood? What about if we have an extra 5000 suicides? What if we close down schools for multiple years? I don't think it's as simple as whether or not you value life.

What about the things we don't know, like long-term effects? Does this make you more susceptible to the flu every year going forward? Does it cause impotence? Higher risk for blood clots? Does it make the common cold more deadly?

No one is advocating shutting down society until the end of time. But to lockdown everyone for a few months until there is a little more scientific knowledge about what this thing is and what it can do before exposing everyone to unknown effects seems like a prudent approach.

April 22, 2020, 10:33:00 AM
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
Maybe your assumptions are wrong?

You quoted a section of my answer that I'm most confident in, but I'm going to assume your question was on the entire post.

Here's one thing I know. Every day, multiple times a day, we find out something new about this virus. The virus lives longer in the eyes than the nasal passage, the virus lives in testicles, the virus (or some treatments?) causes blood clots, the virus affects children, and on and on.

Here's another thing I know. This virus is possibly the deadliest thing we've seen in the lifetime of anyone currently alive.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this thing is a flash in the pan with minimal short-term repercussions other than massive loss of life and zero long term effects. You're a betting man. Are you rolling those dice?

April 22, 2020, 11:35:57 AM
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
Every study that was done, shows that the fatality rate is not nearly what the experts had said.
(and anyone with common sense and no agenda has been saying this for a while)

The fatality rate I saw projected since mid-March was ~.4%. Considering .1% of the entire population of certain hard hit areas are already dead, why would that projection be wrong?

April 22, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
If everyone is exposed, or more specifically everyone under the age of 50 who isn't immunocompromised we can assume there is herd immunity. Saying to assume otherwise is borderline conspiracy theory.

A) You're saying post-pandemic.

B) False. We have no idea about the immunity of anyone who had it already, let alone was just exposed. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's scientific fact. It's unknown.

April 22, 2020, 12:07:13 PM
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
This: Giving people the illness versus the vaccine would render herd immunity pointless, as everyone would get exposed to the full risks of each illness we're trying to prevent.

Herd immunity is accomplished by both those infected and vaccination. How long an infected person is immune is an assumption at this point.
Being exposed to the virus is different risk on so many different levels. Age, sex, race, health and so on.

Versus, not in conjunction with. Considering there is no vaccine, you're just exposing everyone to get a chance at herd immunity. If someone suggested doing that with smallpox, polio, or measles, we'd be appalled.

April 22, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
The flip side is we isolate until we get a vaccine. Good luck with that one.

I think there's a middle ground. Play safe for the short term. Give businesses some time to figure out how to function while creating the safest environment for their employees and customers. Give science a chance to either get a vaccine, or at least better medical responses for those who do get sick. Give hospitals a chance to gear up in the best way possible. Let capitalism do it's thing in coming up with new innovations and solutions for a covid-active and post-covid world.

April 22, 2020, 01:29:08 PM