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Re: Halachik Status of Illegitimate Minyanim
I contemplate my mortality every time I engage in one of these threads

A little bleach to the eyes never killed anyone...

April 14, 2020, 01:12:20 PM
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Re: Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
@CountValentine what is your proposal?
National stay at home order until there's a vaccine and rapid testing available?

Let's hear it.

Just a few ideas...

1) 2 week national stay-at-home order, with individual states determining which businesses are essential in their state.
2) Close all airports and trains, and ban inter-country and interstate travel.
3) Make masks mandatory for anyone who is more than 1000 feet from their residence, or in any public place.
4) Offer tax breaks to any business that keeps employees working from home.
5) Give tax breaks and/or partial student loan forgiveness to any and all frontline responders.
6) Subsidize delivery services which meet certain criteria in safe practices and people served.
7) Offer tax incentives to all businesses that come up with re-open plans which keep customers out of stores (curbside, delivery, etc).

April 14, 2020, 03:14:59 PM
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Re: Traveling from NY to Miami FL
Any tips?

Don't

April 20, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
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Re: When do you think International travel will resume? The eleventy-third of Junetober.
April 20, 2020, 12:42:37 PM
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Re: When do you think International travel will resume?
For all the sarcastic people out there, seems like Quarantine hit you hard.
I've invested alot in arranging things to be able to take off and backpack around the world with my family.
To clarify, we are backpacking for a few months with a fluid itinerary , which basically means country hopping at our convenience,  so if one had to bet on it , which countries/continent would make the most sense to start with and when?
Im venturing to say July.

I don't want you to think I'm attacking you, because I really don't think you meant this post to be insensitive in any way. I understand that you live in your reality, and I commend you for being in a position to do this with your family.

That being said, take a look at the other threads on this board. People are sitting shiva. People are on ventilators. The tehillim list is huuuge. People's businesses are gutted, no income, struggling to pay their bills and feed their families. Even if yours was a legitimate question, this is not the place nor the time.

And this is the reason for the sarcasm: it's not even a remotely legitimate question. There is no data anywhere that anyone in the world can point to that will give you a hint at a chance of an educated guess. You have a better chance of an answer if you ate tea leaves and read them when they came out the other end.

Again, I have no problem with where you are in life. I even aspire to be there one day myself. However, the entire premise if this question is absurd.

April 20, 2020, 01:53:32 PM
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
If you want to stay home to ensure you don't catch the coronavirus that's your choice.

Car accidents contagious now?

ETA: when you're a hazard on the road, they take away your license, too.

April 21, 2020, 12:36:35 PM
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Re: The science of COVID-19
They also don't seem to take the social distancing as seriously (based on the number of violations reported in Newark and some news stories about the outreach some are doing to convince them to social distance).

Sorry, I'm calling this out. We can't complain about anti-Semites projecting the actions of individuals on all Jews if we're going to turn around and do it to others. Play by our own rules.

April 21, 2020, 07:42:16 PM
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Re: The science of COVID-19
Unlike
We’re talking generalities.  Not saying ALL are doing it. Just that such behavior by some, lead to a measurable outcome for the group.

Orthodox Jews have a higher infection rate because they ignore social distancing measures (based on the number of calls to the police and news stories about shuls and schools being open).

How do you like me now?

April 21, 2020, 08:45:08 PM
1
Re: The science of COVID-19
The surgeon general who is African American has implied this as well.

I'm not discriminating against anyone. I am giving an answer to a question asked.

"Well, my lawyer is Jewish and he said it himself. I'm not racist or discriminating, I'm just answering a question."

Rule of thumb: if you can't interchange "x" race with "Jews" and not get offended, you probably shouldn't say it.

April 22, 2020, 12:36:23 AM
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Re: Antisemitism related to Coronavirus
This is crazy! Lakewood is number 51 in NJ coronavirus rates per capita.

We keep quoting stats about how Lakewood has so many fewer cases than some other place in NJ or the US as if it's going to stop anti-Semitism. Haters gonna hate. The narrative just changes to, "Those Jews spread that thing around, used up all the hospital beds, and left the rest of us to suffer their consequences."

April 22, 2020, 12:43:25 AM
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Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
They won’t be getting extra TV revenue those contracts are already done for many years to come

I'm sure they can work out additional marketing contracts if they're going to have such a captive audience. Presuming their sponsors haven't gone belly up, yet...

April 22, 2020, 08:18:18 AM
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Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
Advertising isn’t such a hot market currently. No one is buying anything

-1. The news of the end of the world has been grossly exaggerated. The earth still turns.

April 22, 2020, 08:39:12 AM
1
Re: Are you using DDMS more these days?
You want more covid-19 threads?  :)

"Hang on, let me wake the hamster."

April 22, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
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Re: Should sports play if no fans are allowed?
And especially if the fans of PGA are in the highest risk bracket of covid.....

They're all Afro-Hispanic Ultra Orthodox Jews?

April 22, 2020, 09:55:07 AM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
I'm not sure that's the argument. Isn't the argument that there is a certain threshold for shutting down society - I think everyone agrees to that. If we lockdown we'll have less deaths from flu and car accidents, right? If the death rate of this virus was .001%, no one would be advocating for a shutdown, right? (It would mean 3300 deaths in the US). If Sweden ends up not upending society and 3000 deaths, did they make the wrong decision? I'm not sure it's a question of having a higher value of life. Lockdowns have impacts on people's wellbeing as well. What is the shortened life expectancy if you gain 20 pounds? What about the emotional toll this takes on families. If we have an extra 500 gitin because of this, does that not mean something? What about if 50000 people lose their homes because they lost their livelihood? What about if we have an extra 5000 suicides? What if we close down schools for multiple years? I don't think it's as simple as whether or not you value life.

What about the things we don't know, like long-term effects? Does this make you more susceptible to the flu every year going forward? Does it cause impotence? Higher risk for blood clots? Does it make the common cold more deadly?

No one is advocating shutting down society until the end of time. But to lockdown everyone for a few months until there is a little more scientific knowledge about what this thing is and what it can do before exposing everyone to unknown effects seems like a prudent approach.

April 22, 2020, 10:33:00 AM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
Maybe your assumptions are wrong?

You quoted a section of my answer that I'm most confident in, but I'm going to assume your question was on the entire post.

Here's one thing I know. Every day, multiple times a day, we find out something new about this virus. The virus lives longer in the eyes than the nasal passage, the virus lives in testicles, the virus (or some treatments?) causes blood clots, the virus affects children, and on and on.

Here's another thing I know. This virus is possibly the deadliest thing we've seen in the lifetime of anyone currently alive.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this thing is a flash in the pan with minimal short-term repercussions other than massive loss of life and zero long term effects. You're a betting man. Are you rolling those dice?

April 22, 2020, 11:35:57 AM
1
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
Every study that was done, shows that the fatality rate is not nearly what the experts had said.
(and anyone with common sense and no agenda has been saying this for a while)
https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-usc-study-antibody-la-county-covid-19/6118034/

The fatality rate I saw projected since mid-March was ~.4%. Considering .1% of the entire population of certain hard hit areas are already dead, why would that projection be wrong?

April 22, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
If everyone is exposed, or more specifically everyone under the age of 50 who isn't immunocompromised we can assume there is herd immunity. Saying to assume otherwise is borderline conspiracy theory.

A) You're saying post-pandemic.

B) False. We have no idea about the immunity of anyone who had it already, let alone was just exposed. That's not a conspiracy theory, it's scientific fact. It's unknown.

April 22, 2020, 12:07:13 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
This: Giving people the illness versus the vaccine would render herd immunity pointless, as everyone would get exposed to the full risks of each illness we're trying to prevent.

Herd immunity is accomplished by both those infected and vaccination. How long an infected person is immune is an assumption at this point.
Being exposed to the virus is different risk on so many different levels. Age, sex, race, health and so on.

Versus, not in conjunction with. Considering there is no vaccine, you're just exposing everyone to get a chance at herd immunity. If someone suggested doing that with smallpox, polio, or measles, we'd be appalled.

April 22, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
The flip side is we isolate until we get a vaccine. Good luck with that one.

I think there's a middle ground. Play safe for the short term. Give businesses some time to figure out how to function while creating the safest environment for their employees and customers. Give science a chance to either get a vaccine, or at least better medical responses for those who do get sick. Give hospitals a chance to gear up in the best way possible. Let capitalism do it's thing in coming up with new innovations and solutions for a covid-active and post-covid world.

April 22, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
Denmark: 64 per million
Sweden: 175 per million

Approx .01% difference in mortality rate

Not great with statistics, but I'm seeing an individual in Sweden is almost 3 times more likely to die. That's a pretty big deal to me...

April 22, 2020, 01:32:39 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
To me this is drip drip drip. I think I said this a few times before.  :)
How do we safely fly, sporting events, dining out or a hundred other things?

I don't have the answer to your question. I also don't think I need it today. I'm ok with getting it in a little while. What I look at is progress we've actually made. In January, the medical establishment was still of the opinion that this virus wasn't transmitted human-to-human. After that came the discovery that it was airborne. This was followed by experimental drugs, which worked to varying degrees, as well as preventative measures which slowed the rate of infection. Progress is being made, even if it's not as fast as we'd like. I'm not sure we're at the panic point yet, where we abandon life-saving measures in an effort to "get back to normal."

April 22, 2020, 01:39:55 PM
1
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
The issue I see here is some people don't realize that every day that the country is shut down has serious repercussions on peoples lives and the economy. Anyone saying let's just wait it out for a few more months just to be safe is seriously underestimating the repercussions.

Not underestimating it at all. What about the flip side? We open everything up. Exposure spikes. Infection rates spike. We put our essential workers at much greater risk, threatening our core infrastructure. We put our best and our brightest, our innovators, our health care workers, our leaders of commerce and education, all at much greater risk, threatening our future. All because Bob may lose his house?

April 22, 2020, 02:25:07 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
You make valid points but they are lost with statements like this.  ::)

You're right, a gross exaggeration. My point was people are protesting because they're struggling. They need to pay their bills. I sympathize, because I'm in the same boat. I'm living it. But we need to think outside of our personal struggles. We bounced back from economic struggles before. Replacing people is a little bit harder.

April 22, 2020, 02:30:18 PM
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Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
We bounced back from the great depression but how many starved to death? I am not equating the two but showing economics does cause death.
The economics of this will directly cause lives to be lost. We need experts to give us their predictions on this also.
Does one life lost equal 10 lives ruined, 100 or 1000? Not a question I really want to think about or could even answer.

Does one life lost only equal one life lost? I know you look at the charity thread, and I know you cry when you read the stories. How many more orphans can we handle? How many teachers can we lose? How many community leaders, pillars of charity, wisdom, advocacy, and business can we lose? How do we quantify the lives ruined? It's not a question you want to think about or answer, and neither do I. I definitely don't want some math geek to come up with an equation in his bunker.

This is what I believe. A life ruined can be repaired, but a life lost is lost forever. Judaism teaches that life is paramount, superseding everything in importance short of G-d and His Glory Himself. That is how I would like to approach this crises. Prioritize life today, and work towards solving the issues we know we'll face in the future.

April 22, 2020, 03:19:01 PM
1
Re: Denmark and Sweden: An apples to apples comparison
So do we should not open things back up until more is known? If so how long would you wait?

I don't know. But I think the focus should be less on "getting back to normal" and more on incentivizing businesses to adapt and innovate to the current situation. Things cannot safely go back to the way they were. To give up on saving lives today because of what may be later is immoral, IMO. It's also a cop out. We're better than that.

April 22, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
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Re: Corona virus and your shul Man, we were doing so well!!

Btw, Epstein didn't kill himself.

April 22, 2020, 07:01:53 PM
2
Re: Delta to tlv opening May 8
LOL. Time to start posting more of the emails that I get.

Make a thread. It would be nice to see stupid that doesn't involve life and death for a change.

April 22, 2020, 07:05:39 PM
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Re: Dan's Inbox: Where Fun Happens! Formally requesting a special Coronavirus edition.
April 22, 2020, 11:43:31 PM
9
Re: Corona virus and your shul
The blame lies partially with the.....

Can we stop blaming others? A supermarket or restaurant has no social responsibility. They are businesses. Their owners and managers daven in the same illegal minyanim as their customers. If you're taking your cues from a supermarket instead of doctors, rabbonim, or your own basic research, the resulting cause of death should be stupidity.

April 23, 2020, 06:40:01 AM
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Re: Delta to tlv opening May 8
Wikied

Feature request: a like button for the wiki

April 23, 2020, 06:43:30 AM
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Re: Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
I want to clarify something. When you say “this administration”, do you mean relative to other countries? Other leaders? How you would have done it? Even if in hindsight something doesn’t work out, that does not by definition equal a blunder. So I’m curious what you’re referring to.

We've clarified this already. The title says what it means. It's regardless of anyone else's track record or theoretical ability to do it better. It's purely a scorecard on things that should have, or even could have, been done differently by the US government led by Donald J. Trump.

April 23, 2020, 06:53:43 AM
2
Re: Will the truth come out how this administration made blunder after blunder?
I will be hiring a speech writer in the near future. You would be one of the top ones I will be considering if you are interested.

Currently accepting offers.

April 23, 2020, 07:42:32 AM
1
Re: Avatars
I would point out a hidden meaning to this: On DDF, often you feel like you're just going around in circles...

Wait... there's more?

April 23, 2020, 07:45:13 AM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
LOL .00018 and .018%
What decimal is 1%?  ;)

Being isolated with a teacher is rubbing off...

April 23, 2020, 01:30:36 PM
1
Re: Are they going to claim they didn't see this coming?
Another shoe that is dropping.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/meat-plant-logansport-waterloo-closed_n_5ea0c1cac5b69150246d076c?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20vc2VhcmNoP3E9dHlzb24rY2xvc2VzK3BsYW50JmZvcm09RUROVEhUJm1rdD1lbi11cyZodHRwc21zbj0xJm1zbmV3cz0xJnJlY19zZWFyY2g9MSZwbHZhcj0wJnJlZmlnPTEwZGQxYjczODNmMDQzNjdlOTBjNzdjYWM1ZTFlNjhiJlBDPVNTSlMmc3A9LTEmcHE9dHlzb24rY2xvc2VzK3BsYW50JnNjPTItMTgmcXM9biZzaz0mY3ZpZD0xMGRkMWI3MzgzZjA0MzY3ZTkwYzc3Y2FjNWUxZTY4Yg&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGu4X87B604QYf3yFKVOV2d1vYP_4xMjbR6AAgakAi8dy1P999O6fgehbyJAdzBfPXzK88uFJZlr0PiRaqdSVlXWQ-IgfSWTTdJYA7734w4Ifls2AZVu8WYgoIzjT7gUviKCvIzXhtHpp7pOHy4NCvx9Be8nr9cIJ2WXGaLfbfFB

We saw it coming.

Not to pollute your thread, but this is another argument for not letting up the social distancing. The devastation to the entire infrastructure if it all gets hit at once would be an arguably worse blow to our long term stability than the current measures.

April 23, 2020, 02:15:44 PM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
Sure feels that way even without citation. Every second person had some symptoms. Will not be surprised that its higher than that. Exposure was definitely higher than that. Just look at the numbers from the one New Rochelle case.

IMHO, this narrative is sooo dangerous to the Tri-state Jewish communities. It breeds a false sense of security, where terms like "herd immunity" are bandied about. Without real numbers, the potential for a second wave devastating those communities is huge. Everyone's walking around feeling like they're Superman, because "I couldn't smell for 3 months!" and "My whole family had it, including my relative who on a vent." IMO, that false sense of security is more dangerous than not knowing anything about it to begin with.

April 23, 2020, 02:39:18 PM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
Me, my wife, my kids have all been blood tested for antibodies in the last 72 hours. Waiting for results. Labs are finally testing as of this week but with limited capacity. They limited my daughter's office to 50 or so tests per day but promised way more capacity next week.

The test still does not show if the virus is active. It just shows if you have had it. Next week they will have the other half of the test. That should alleviate your concern. There is no herd immunity until you can prove immunity. I would be shocked and terrified if I didnt have it at this point.

Testing would absolutely alleviate some of my concerns. Assuming the testing is accurate. But the narrative has been "We all had it, we're fine" for the last few weeks, without any testing.

April 23, 2020, 02:47:44 PM
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Re: Government Seizing Property During Covid-19
If comments related to an article about Orthodox Jews contains 100's of negative comments, some from officials, a person can only speculate that some in the local FBI office share the same sentiment. This leads to direct targeting of orthodox jews.

It'll take a few years and expect to see lawsuits regarding targeting of orthodox jews when it comes to enforcement of laws (just like african americans).

Sorry, nope. Not even close. For sooo many reasons.

April 23, 2020, 02:58:35 PM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
From my shull? 75% had it. I'm not joking. And it was closed the whole time. There is really no point in arguing about this.

You can say that this is just Boro Park and Williamsburg. I have no idea. But whoever lives here knows this to be true.

Question... would you bet someone's life on it?

April 23, 2020, 03:20:30 PM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
While some people may be saying that (here and elsewhere) the facts on the ground here in Lakewood is that NOBODY is going back to normal. The streets and stores are fairly empty. The shuls, schools and yeshivos are closed.
(even those that are doing things that  shouldn't be done are doing it in limited fashion with distancing)

Kol hakavod to Lakewood! Unfortunately, the reality is very different in many other places.

April 23, 2020, 04:20:42 PM
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Re: INDIA fully recovered WOW!!
Wait, but how about Nigeria?

Ask the Prince.

April 23, 2020, 06:36:35 PM
2
Re: Tweets, Pictures, And Videos That Are Coronavirus Related
April 23, 2020, 07:21:47 PM
1
Re: INDIA fully recovered WOW!!
Crazy story! He was going to contact you, but he got captured by a rival political faction and they were going to kill him. He needed to get all his money out of the country and somehow stumbled on my email address. I sent him a few grand just so he has my real account details and then he's going to send the national treasury to me.

You're totally the guy who carries on months-long email chains with these guys, aren't you...

April 23, 2020, 07:38:11 PM
2
Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
This is totally unfair.
Is your approach betting lives?

Your approach is guaranteed to kill 60k+ lives!!! Is that fair?


I'm confused about this post. Can you please clarify?

April 23, 2020, 08:52:13 PM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
If you're assuming there's no immunity, then when can we open back up? We can't stay locked down forever. At some point we'll just have to take our chances and get back to quasi normal.

What I'm looking for is a medication that lowers the mortality rate to "acceptable" levels. People get sick all the time. We live our lives. I think if we can come up with a treatment regimen that makes this more like the flu, and then try to come up with a flu-like vaccine, we're ok.

April 23, 2020, 10:24:13 PM
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Re: Corona virus and your shul
Stop accusing thousands of yidden of not caring to do what is right.
...
Many of the minyan haters are people that were lax about minyan before this started so they have no appreciation for the importance of minyan.

Uh... :o   :-X

April 24, 2020, 12:34:11 AM
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Re: Corona virus and your shul
Same argument over and over. No one on these forums is gonna change anyone’s mind. Unfortunately only one way that some people’s mind will change, and I don’t wish it on anyone. Long story short, best one can hope for is listen to your Rav.

I disagree. I think that sometimes the argument gets presented in a slightly new way and maybe that way clicks for someone when it didn't before. Worst case, we wasted time and people got ticked off. Best case, maybe another Jewish life is saved. It annoys me every time, but ultimately I come to terms with it.

April 24, 2020, 12:52:08 AM
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Re: Corona virus and your shul
I will hopefully have video evidence sometime next week.

I hope you don't.

April 24, 2020, 10:23:32 AM
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Re: Calculating The Actual Fatality Rate
That's another upside of opening up sooner rather than later, the younger/healthy people get immunity so the older/sicker people will be able to get out sooner.

Just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true. Who said you have immunity if you already had it?

April 24, 2020, 11:23:29 AM
1