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Re: Law School
Thanks for the response!
Law is something that I think I would find interesting and stimulating and I would definitely put in any work that is required of me. I think I would work very hard to be as successful as I can be.  But being realistic as a frum Jew  I know my chances of making partner are probably somewhat less than if I wasn't religious. I am OK with that and I will take my chances. However, I have spoken to lawyers who have mentioned to me that once you have the big law on your resume there are many other opportunities that are open to you with better hours like you mentioned. So my question was  is it a environment  that they throw out associates or do you have opportunities to leave on your own terms?
They aren't firing associates if that's what your asking. It's just a natural transition when they stop increasing your pay and you work the same hours. Basically after 8 years you either make partner or you keep working with no raise which I think is when most people leave if they didn't already...

February 26, 2017, 01:08:56 PM
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Re: Law School
Anyways, I'm a BTL guy starting Columbia this year and as I was reading through I noticed that a few times people mentioned that after a few years you have to transition out of BigLaw, and how that is mostly inevitable and difficult. Can I ask why that is? Even though I assuredly won't make partner, why wouldn't a firm want to keep me as long as I am useful until I am able to leave on my terms?
R' JJ's right as to many law firms, but there are more than a handful that dont follow the classic biglaw rules but still pay market. just need to really discriminate and figure out which firm fits your plan. I went to a smaller biglaw place where people are generally more normal/less gunners and we are happy to have and keep people who do good work and make clients happy, even if they dont bring in new business. counsel positions make more than associates, and grow each year basically in line with the associate raise scale, but with bigger bonus opportunities and values for bringing in business (if u do). and if u are really lucky (and this is probably rare and requires special circumstances with rainmakers/imp partners loving u), u can even make equity partner without bringing in your own business, and even with a yarmulke! That will require lots of sacrifice (working all night when needed, going the extra mile for the client to make their job easier etc), but i make much more than most of my inhouse counterparts (based on equiv seniority), and they work prob 2/3s as much as i do. and i dont have a normal 9/5 and can work from home/unlimited vacations etc, being more of a hired gun without 9/5 annoying requirements that inhouse people suffer with.

February 26, 2017, 02:47:11 PM
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Re: Law School
That sounds pretty reasonable. But is your experience more of an exception in your firm (or others), or is it something that they would allow most anyone to do provided they put it the quality work that you do?
I have had lots of crazy luck at my firm, but there are others like mine, and at worst u can move somewhere else where they will value u (depending on practice and market timing). u gotta think of yourself as a rookie looking to be a star on a sports team or something similar (except aging probably helps with experience for a longer period before drop off when u can no longer turn docs overnight). if u do good work and are willing to put in the time (sometimes at the expense of family etc), there will always be a market for u, and u just have to know that and confidently push for what u think your value is. At most non-lockstep firms there are at least a few big rainmakers who recognize when their associates/counsel make the client happy/get the client to give more work and praise. those guys usually have lots of sway in excess of their pure cut of profits and they can push those they feel they need to keep happy to get some of that gravy. To be clear, its not just quality work, its client service, doing everything to make the client's life easier and to make them (the inhouse peeps) look good to their "clients". that means helping on a nonbillable basis where needed, anticipating what they will need before they ask for it etc.

inhouse people in smaller places generally have much less leverage as a cost center, unless/until they push themselves into a stronger business role (esp with corporate lawyers, learning to negotiate all terms of a deal and understanding economics etc, i.e. quitting from the more general inhouse lawyer job) and become a senior exec, which sometimes can be hard and is a much harder "competition" when there is only 1-2 spots. In bigger places, there is a significant fear of being the first cost center and being kicked out right when u join (LIFO) bc the company needs to cut costs, which i saw with a couple friends.
 

February 26, 2017, 03:18:10 PM
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Re: Law School There have been a lot of different topics of discussion going around, but just wanted to comment re: being a frum associate and therefore being unavailable on Shabbos. I'm sure there are firms where they really don't like it and it'll hurt your chances at partnership, but that's far from the case at every firm in NYC. My firm is super understanding and accepting to the extent that if I'm cutting it a bit too close on a Friday, they'll basically throw me out of the office because they don't want me to be late. As long as you're willing to make it up, they don't mind it at all. This year, two frum people got promoted to partner and least year there was one.

It's a give and take. There have been times when I needed people to cover for me on Shabbos because it was smack in the middle of the busiest time of the deal, but I've also covered for people when they had family situations and they needed to be offline. If you're committed and work hard, and that means working late on Saturday nights to make up for being offline on Shabbos, at least IME, being frum won't hurt you in terms of getting staffed on deals.

February 26, 2017, 04:41:20 PM
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Re: Law School
Do you know of people in your firm who are there for longer who have been able to do that (stick around and be able to spend more time with family)?

Some. At least at my firm, many partners work harder than associates, so more senior non-partners have a somewhat easier life. Several frum people, particularly the women, moved to part time.

February 26, 2017, 07:48:31 PM
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Re: Law School
Who would know if I didn't?
Now that the kind of reasoning I expect from a CLS student! ;D

March 02, 2017, 03:38:03 PM
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Re: Law School
does that mean that Northwestern is similar to UofChicago in that approach?

I was thinking of like HYSNC, but yes, I would think that a 1L class in Northwestern is perfectly fungible with a 1L class in University of Chicago.

March 03, 2017, 09:38:37 AM
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Re: Law School
Don't read or brief cases. Waste of time
Unless you get cold called by the professor in front of 100 people at which time he or she proceeds to make you look like an imbecile for not having brief the cases.

April 25, 2017, 07:22:50 PM
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Re: Law School
and then the shame passes and you're stronger than before.
How do you think I became AJK?

April 25, 2017, 07:37:53 PM
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Re: Law School
Unless you get cold called by the professor in front of 100 people at which time he or she proceeds to make you look like an imbecile for not having brief the cases.
Many cliff notes available that a yeshiva guy can read in 30 seconds and sound way smarter than other students who briefed for hours, when called on.

April 25, 2017, 08:17:12 PM
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Re: Law School I'm a big fan of getting notes from someone who took that professor last year. They rarely add new materials and you know what they emphasized last year.
April 25, 2017, 10:45:16 PM
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Re: Law School
I'm a big fan of getting notes from someone who took that professor last year. They rarely add new materials and you know what they emphasized last year.

This.

April 25, 2017, 10:54:52 PM
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May 09, 2017, 01:59:09 PM
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Re: Law School
Hey everyone!

I'm new to this site and I'm trying to register for Fischs December LSAT course. I have sent him multiple emails and he doesn't respond, does anyone know another way of contacting him?

Thanks!
He often doesn't reply until he is ready for acceptances. And then replies to everyone at once.

August 22, 2017, 04:35:26 PM
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Re: Law School
Yes, that will be a late application in the cycle.  You really want your application in the first day.
Agreed 100%. Unless you can increase your lsat by multiple points taking it later.

When did you apply?
I was told that BMG guys where accepted with a 166 after initially being waitlisted.
I'm trying to get a handle on the score to Penn needed so I can make a good decision considering all options. If with my score I'm very likely to get in anyways without ED, than it may not be worth it.

Is the December LSAT late? Still can make the 2nd round of early decision at Penn...
I don't think there is a magic recipe for what gets in and what doesn't, there are general guidelines for what works and what doesn't, but then it goes case to case. If you'd be through the roof thrilled with Penn then do ED, if you must get a T7 school or bust and your score is borderline than probably also do ED, if you really want HLS or CLS and will feel bad going to Penn then don't do ED. Anything else in between is really up to you, and make sure you don't let anyone make that decision for you because you have to live with it.

I personally think Penn is an amazing school with the employment stats to back it up. Going there v HLS is not crazy different if you want a corp law job in NYC.

September 12, 2017, 03:37:08 PM
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Re: Law School
When did you apply?
I applied after the December LSAT.

September 12, 2017, 05:22:44 PM
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Re: Law School I think the only place you should ED is Northwestern...
September 12, 2017, 05:24:39 PM
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Re: Law School
I would be happy with Penn and very disappointed with less. CLS doesn't excite me over Penn, however having the option of living in NY would nice although I think the odds are against me getting in there, and it's not like I definitely prefer NYC.

The million dollar Q right now is should I take this test or wait for December. My current scores are about the same as some other who where waitlisted but ultimately accepted. If I can bump my score 3 points is Dec. a better choice? Part of the calculus is also that if I do on the lower end of my range now how much will it hurt me if/when I take it again in Dec? (If the negative is minimal than there's little to loose taking it now).

My new signature is definitely being reflected in these posts:)
I don't know your range, but you won't know if you get your bottom range score or top range score until you actually take it. I think ED can likely make up for 3 points.

But again it's your call.

I.hope you are taking a test a day now and on a good sleep schedule. And don't over think on test day, just do the same rythem you always do.

September 13, 2017, 08:13:15 AM
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Re: Law School
I personally think Penn is an amazing school with the employment stats to back it up. Going there v HLS is not crazy different if you want a corp law job in NYC.
coming from yeshiva i had no idea how good penn is, esp for real corporate law (they have a few great corp law profs and a good dept with a great setup with regular access to the Delaware justices for lots of special symposiums etc which is a treat). but of course living in ny vs philly is a consideration for frum peeps esp with family/wanting to date.

September 13, 2017, 09:41:22 AM
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Re: Law School
I've heard the idea thrown around.  Maybe not.

I mean, what's the commute from Monsey to CLS? Longer than that.

monsey to CLS could be public transport, and you can daven/multitask, however if driving-in daily from Lakewood can be challenging.

September 13, 2017, 04:08:50 PM
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Re: Law School
monsey to CLS could be public transport, and you can daven/multitask, however if driving-in daily from Lakewood can be challenging.
Great thing about CLS is u can live in KGH (renting obviously) and drive to school and find parking pretty easily (arrange classes based on alternate side) in about a half hour.

September 13, 2017, 04:13:57 PM
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Re: Law School
Just started CLS commuting from lakewood, and my grades are still in the top 5% of the class... ;)
#Gunner

September 13, 2017, 08:32:24 PM
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Re: Law School
Sorry to go a drop OT but I worked once w a shaital at a big4 audit.. she didn't last through April (erev pesach)...
quite relevant. kinda sad.

October 25, 2017, 06:11:02 PM
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Re: Law School
Y sad?  Nobody should have to work my hours, but as between me and my wife,  we're sure glad it's me
i have the same perspective, but you would think there are certain women who are geared to the work and are forced to miss out because it just isnt practical. similar to my issue with not being an R&B superstar.

October 25, 2017, 06:14:52 PM
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Re: Law School This is a famous argument when it comes to the gender wage gap. Men are willing to sacrifice more overall for higher paying positions.
October 25, 2017, 06:24:04 PM
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Re: Law School
Is it sad you can't be an r and b superstar?
YES
This is a famous argument when it comes to the gender wage gap. Men are willing to sacrifice more overall for higher paying positions.
many times only because they are lucky to have superhero wives who run a house and sometimes work too at a decreased pay level... we are all just counting the days til we retire.

October 25, 2017, 06:48:14 PM
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Re: Law School
+100
While I'm sure all of us have frustration in our occupations, if you don't love what you do it's time to find a new occupation...
Love is a strong word...

October 26, 2017, 12:03:41 AM
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Re: Law School Not quite sure what the difference between a frum man and a frum woman is. Both are frum, both keep Shabbos/YT. Why is it "normal" if a frum guy works in big law but not normal/doable for a frum woman? It's almost like Jews are stuck in the 1800s while the rest of the world has moved on.


October 26, 2017, 12:15:56 AM
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Re: Law School
Not quite sure what the difference between a frum man and a frum woman is. Both are frum, both keep Shabbos/YT. Why is it "normal" if a frum guy works in big law but not normal/doable for a frum woman? It's almost like Jews are stuck in the 1800s while the rest of the world has moved on.


More like stuck in the 1800s BCE, but ya, it is what it is.

October 26, 2017, 12:24:46 AM
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Re: Law School
Not quite sure what the difference between a frum man and a frum woman is. Both are frum, both keep Shabbos/YT. Why is it "normal" if a frum guy works in big law but not normal/doable for a frum woman? It's almost like Jews are stuck in the 1800s while the rest of the world has moved on.
Oh, it's because frum women help their husbands fullfil the obligation to bear children.

After that female mothers are the needed to nurture the young children.

Is this news to you?

October 26, 2017, 07:29:35 AM
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Re: Law School
Oh, it's because frum women help their husbands fullfil the obligation to bear children.

After that female mothers are the needed to nurture the young children.

Is this news to you?
So you're telling me that non-Jewish women either don't have kids, or they have kids but they don't nurture their children? Wow, that's really interesting.

Or, maybe, it's because many if not most "frumer" girls schools put these ideas in their students' heads that Jewish women should only get a degree in making chulent and kugel and if a girl would actually say that she wants to be a lawyer or a doctor when she grows up, she'd get looked at like she's from outer space. There's a reason why once you shift over to more modern schools, you have plenty of girls going to college / grad schools.

October 26, 2017, 08:43:18 AM
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Re: Law School LOL.
Still very few MO girls in big law
Do you deny that a mother in big law will have less time to nurture her children?
And do you think that not Jews on average have more or less children than Jews?

October 26, 2017, 08:57:19 AM
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Re: Law School

So you're telling me that non-Jewish women either don't have kids, or they have kids but they don't nurture their children? Wow, that's really interesting.

Or, maybe, it's because many if not most "frumer" girls schools put these ideas in their students' heads that Jewish women should only get a degree in making chulent and kugel and if a girl would actually say that she wants to be a lawyer or a doctor when she grows up, she'd get looked at like she's from outer space. There's a reason why once you shift over to more modern schools, you have plenty of girls going to college / grad schools.

Correct. Non Jewish professional women almost never have kids before 30 (or 35+ if they are very career oriented). And even then they only have a couple max..

Jewish girls are educated to observe the Torah which commands a man to have at least two kids ASAP.
This has nothing to do with chulent. It's just reality. An apple is just an apple.

October 26, 2017, 09:25:29 AM
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Re: Law School
LOL.
Still very few MO girls in big law
Do you deny that a mother in big law will have less time to nurture her children?
And do you think that not Jews on average have more or less children than Jews?
Starting to be more and more frum women in big law. And there are also a lot of frum women who are doctors (also a really demanding job).

I don't deny that a woman in big law will have less time with her kids, but that has nothing to do with being Jewish. I was responding to a statement that implied that non-Jewish women are basically terrible mothers who don't care about their kids.

.

I don't disagree with you. I disagree with the opinion that big law is realistic for a non Jewish woman but not realistic for a Jewish woman.

October 26, 2017, 09:29:15 AM
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Re: Law School

Correct. Non Jewish professional women almost never have kids before 30 (or 35+ if they are very career oriented). And even then they only have a couple max..

Jewish girls are educated to observe the Torah which commands a man to have at least two kids ASAP.
This has nothing to do with chulent. It's just reality. An apple is just an apple.
-1 on the first statement. Plenty of non Jewish professional women who have kids before 30. I know people like this that I work with, that I went to school with, etc. You don't strike me as a guy who has any non-Jewish friends. So your statement is based on a sample size of what? 2 people? Maybe 3 if you're one of the more open minded people in Lakewood. 

As to the second statement - *facepalm*. You do realize that there are plenty of respectable Ravs who give heterim to not have kids right away, right? Reasons include financial, career, etc. Not everyone holds that you'll burn in hell if you don't try to set a record for the amount of kids you can possibly have between the age of 19 of 35.

October 26, 2017, 09:39:19 AM
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Re: Law School

-1 on the first statement. Plenty of non Jewish professional women who have kids before 30. I know people like this that I work with, that I went to school with, etc. You don't strike me as a guy who has any non-Jewish friends. So your statement is based on a sample size of what? 2 people? Maybe 3 if you're one of the more open minded people in Lakewood. 

As to the second statement - *facepalm*. You do realize that there are plenty of respectable Ravs who give heterim to not have kids right away, right? Reasons include financial, career, etc. Not everyone holds that you'll burn in hell if you don't try to set a record for the amount of kids you can possibly have between the age of 19 of 35.

A) correct that I have no non Jewish friends, but have worked with hundreds of non Jewish coworkers. Don't recall any that had kids before 30 but it's definitely possible. (- besides for one very very religious Muslim, who's husband from Islamabad insisted on it... Long story).

(I did have male co-workers though that had wives around 30 w kids... Those women didn't have much of a carreer.)

B) I did hear Rav shechters take on this recently on the headlines podcast... Don't  wanna get into this here... But it's not at all simple to snap your fingers and get blanket heter...

October 26, 2017, 09:48:21 AM
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Re: Law School
Being a doctor is not remotely a demanding job, except a few specialties like ob
I know one neurologist in a big hospital in NYC. Extremely demanding schedule...

October 26, 2017, 09:51:18 AM
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Re: Law School
Well, obviously it's a range, and I'm not going to stake myself on where the dividing line between demanding and nondemanding is.  But I said that most doctor jobs are not remotely demanding, and I stand by that.

Here are some factors common to most doctor jobs, by which I mean doctors who work in a practice, and aren't OB, surgery or certain other specialties.  Think GPs and pediatricians and cardiologists and hematologists and allergists and toxicologists, etc. (and derm, but you'll yell that I picked the easy one).

1. Set hours.  Appointment at 5? No, call back tomorrow.
2. Not on call nights and weekends, except for specified scheduled nights and weekend times.
3. Don't need to answer emails outside of work hours.
4. Can plan time out of office and offline, and nothing from work can come up.  Chumash play? Tony, will you pencil in that I'm not available on the 24th from 10-1130?

I don't know enough to be all inclusive. See above.

Depends when you start school, for each.  Not very fair to cap it at early 30's--raising children goes way past early 30's. If you have a kid at 37, he'll be 4 when you're 41.

Tl;dr I'm right.
You went from OB to every surgical specialty. Aren't there a lot of 9-5 lawyers? Are we not counting them either? Only Corporate lawyers?

October 31, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
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Re: Law School
Their jobs are not remotely demanding.
I don't think you get to say "I'm right" when you qualify and re-qualify your original statement.

October 31, 2017, 01:03:51 PM
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Re: Law School
See my ETA, above.

tl;dr henche right
More, re-qualifications? Nice...

October 31, 2017, 01:08:48 PM
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Re: Law School
Anyway, if doctors are having ppl die on their watch, it's because they're not doing their job well.  It's like if I would complain that I have to watch my clients sign bad agreements.
Its probably the same thing  ???

November 02, 2017, 11:41:00 AM
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Re: Law School
Anyway, if doctors are having ppl die on their watch, it's because they're not doing their job well.  It's like if I would complain that I have to watch my clients sign bad agreements.
That's the equivalent of saying if any of your clients pay any taxes you aren't doing your job well.

November 02, 2017, 11:51:21 AM
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Chase ink cash new bonus Chase ink cash raised the sign up bonus from $300 to $500
March 23, 2018, 08:46:47 AM
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Re: CO Spark - $3,000 - 300,000 miles is back
Wow. That is awesome & a great DP
you can hit the like button  ;)

October 29, 2019, 01:46:05 PM
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Re: AMEX Return Protection: Did They Make You Return The Item?
Bump
Yup, I do. They make you send the item back and don't pay for the shipping. It's not as simple a process, but you'll get your $ in the end (less shipping). Money given via check.

February 26, 2020, 10:20:01 PM
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Re: Schwab Account Just a DP regarding Schwab.
If you transfer money into Schwab using the Schwab Transfer tab- (sometimes) they make you wait 4 days till you can take the money out.
If you transfer money to Schwab using an outside transfer source like the bank your transfering from the money is available right away.

May 12, 2020, 08:01:10 AM
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Re: Law School
Are the 0Ls thinking of deferring?  Obviously nobody can read future but if lots of ppl deferring, you can imagine that class being a studentsí market if theres good hiring demand but fewer top students
what? That's the only reason we keep you around

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October 16, 2020, 11:46:47 PM
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Re: Best way to maximize $120 Credit Grubhub, Seamless
I've seen anywhere from 5 to 15 days for it to post.

As long as your charge posted before the 31st of that month you're fine, and of course you only used it once.
Great, thanks.

November 01, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
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Re: Selling Amex Platinum airline credit
Buying $200 Amex airline credit for Delta at 70%
Thank you @Cls2020 for the smooth transaction.

November 02, 2020, 12:53:35 PM
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