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Just Shmooze / Re: Politically and economically where do you guys stand?
« on: September 01, 2014, 07:17:26 AM »
Show me the research which says that a minimal safety net is not beneficial.
There is a big difference between not following something which may have changed over the years to deciding that they were wrong because it doesn't fit with the ideologies someone got from Rush Limbaugh.

Now you sound like Sam Seder. If you want a safety net, I am not stopping you from using your money to fund it or ask other people to voluntarily fund it.
I am against you (or the government) extorting other people at gunpoint.

Just Shmooze / Re: Politically and economically where do you guys stand?
« on: August 29, 2014, 05:56:59 AM »
Chazal also spoke about bloodletting. We don't do that anymore today.
If we no longer appeal to outdated medical knowledge, why should we appeal to outdated economics?

Just Shmooze / Re: The funny/strange/interesting pictures thread
« on: July 22, 2014, 11:00:26 AM »

Why do I sometimes feel like after I need to repeat the same point numerous times due to it being evaded it eventually just becomes a conversation ender?

Either the words of chazal have been misinterpreted, or chazal might have been wrong on this one


How do you propose to take care of a safety net?

“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all those others that have been tried” – Winston Churchill.

As I said before, it is called צדקה.
On government, if a monopoly leads to inefficiencies at best for food, consumer goods etc., why would it be any different for money or a legal system.

Every man for himself, right? No government intervention, right?

No government is or will ever be perfect. What you have today is as close to democracy as you are going to get. If you think you can do better, find your own island and start your own government. Let's see how well you do.

I am no liberal.
Fallacy: 1) If the government does not provide a service, than that service won't be provided at all.
             2) You think that I want everyone to fend for themselves.

Democracy is still the tyranny of the majority. Look at the liberals who want to force employers to pay for the birth control pills of their female employees. And that's just one example among many.

Stop drinking the kool-aid. Do you really think that there was no poverty before the minimum wage was enacted in 1938?
You don't trust the government? so who would you trust?

“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all those others that have been tried” – Winston Churchill.

Minimum wage hurts the unskilled working poor.
אל-תבטחו בנדיבים-- בבן-אדם, שאין לו תשועה
ie I don't trust people with power.


Statist: A recent poll has 55% of the public supporting stricter gun control laws, with 44% opposed.

(Implication: the threat or initiation of violence against peaceful people is justified by numbers.)


Democracy? I want nothing to do with a system which operates on the premise that my rights don't exist simply because I am outnumbered. —R. Lee Wrights
The threat or initiation of violence (violation of the NonAggressionPrinciple) does not suddenly become moral because you outnumber a group (even if you go through a rat's nest of "representatives" and claim you're a "republic" rather than a "democracy").

It does not become moral just because said majority hires people, dresses them in uniforms, and pays them (with stolen money) to initiate violence; special pleading is a fallacy, and evil actions do not become good because a gang calling itself "the state" demands them.

As Zale mentioned, some level of a mandatory safety net is what is advocated al pi torah. I did not say anything more or less than that. I think that he took it further than I would.

As an aside, there is certainly a public interest in a minimal level of safety net since history has shown that desperation leads to criminality. Some of the most dangerous places are due to crimes of desperation. The question becomes which has the least adverse effects.

The solution is to  abolish regulations which prohibits people from working, such as minimum wage.
What if I don't trust the government to properly spend and manage that money to help the needy? I don't trust the government!

Everything has adverse effects

So, does that justify stealing my hard-earned money?
Redistribution of wealth is theft

Safety nets have adverse effects

And a sales tax discourages purchases. Of course having to deal with sales tax has no compliance costs. ::)
All produced goods are meant to be consumed.

Give a man, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish, and he'll eat for life.
Promise and give a man someone else's fish, and he'll vote for you.


Peter Schiff explains how to reduce taxes in his book The Real Crash. The USA was built on small and limited government and low taxation.

I didn't say to increase taxes.
If a tax on alcohol and cigarettes discourages drinking and smoking, do you consider the possibility that an income tax discourages people from working.

Do you understand how high the compliance costs are? The very idea that we need more than a pen and paper to file our tax returns shows how big government is.
And why should it be considered a privilege to keep what I earn?

A sales tax. Or even better, tariffs.

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