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Messages - zh cohen

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Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: Yesterday at 11:10:15 AM »
This is true. What this argument really boils down to is essentially a machlokes between R' Moshe and the Lubavitcher Rebbe about how much we should push the government to be involved in morality and "zayin mitzvos." R' Moshe held very strongly against it and the Rebbe held very strongly for it. We can go back and forth for days but if you hold like one of them then you're probably not going to be persuaded to hold like the other.

There are actually 3 arguments going on here. One is the above-mentioned, and the other is the machlokes between the Tzitz Eliezer and R' Moshe (and many others) on the morality of abortion in general.

The third is lehavdil;

a machlokes haposkim between Rush Limbaugh and Rachel Maddow.

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 23, 2019, 10:31:14 PM »

An interesting addition to this conversation. (And no, I don't think all victims of rape feel this way, but it is a perspective that fits with a Torah hashkafa)

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 23, 2019, 10:27:50 PM »
@Shkop You can't hold individual women responsible for the fact that society considers abortion a valid choice.

Just Shmooze / Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« on: May 22, 2019, 10:53:10 PM »
So you're saying that rabanim can't make a chilel hashem, no matter what they do???

No, he's saying that doing the right thing is not a chilul hashem (no matter how many people think it's not the right thing)

I was told the smartest way to get a loan is to get the lowest monthly payments and then over pay monthly and you will be paying straight principal. Anybody hear of this before?

How would the math work on that?

Also, should I take the longest period possible (ie 84 months)?

Do you want to be still be paying off the car in 7 years? Will you still be driving it?

Just Shmooze / Re: Interesting Articles...
« on: May 22, 2019, 04:21:39 PM »
They're trying to make the dessert in to the main course.

Yes they had and will have a lot of must see  blockbusters but those won't be coming once a month to keep you subscribed.

I know nothing about this business, but won't they also have (or eventually be able to get) all or most of what Netflix has? The new releases just "sweeten the deal".

Just Shmooze / Re: Random questions.
« on: May 22, 2019, 12:40:40 AM »
The car has better gas mileage than 13 miles a gallon. Its a scam.

Not by much -

Just Shmooze / Re: Random questions.
« on: May 21, 2019, 11:46:31 PM »
The car has better gas mileage than 13 miles a gallon. Its a scam.

I missed that part

Just Shmooze / Re: Random questions.
« on: May 21, 2019, 10:10:31 PM »
Rented a car today for 3 hours in CLE. Drove 13 miles total for the day. Booked through Priceline. Drove the car off the lot with a Full tank and returned with a Full tank. Somehow they clocked me out at 30.9 gallons and returned at 29.9 gallons.
1. How the heck can they know how many gallons are in the tank?
2. How am I supposed to know how many gallons are in it?
3. They charged a minimum Fuel Service Charge of $15.99 and I ended up with a $35+ charge for allegedly bringing it back 1 gallon below full.

I think this is a racket they are running for those people that dont prepay for gas. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  >:(   

Crossposted in Budget Master Thread.

If you have a receipt that shows that you filled up right before returning, it might help you fight it

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 21, 2019, 06:42:30 PM »
For those who are interested in the facts about late term abortion, the (pro- choice, Planned Parenthood founded) Gutmacher institute says that “[D]ata suggest that most women seeking later terminations are not doing so for reasons of fetal anomaly or life endangerment.” Instead, there were “five general profiles of women who sought later abortions, describing 80% of the sample.” These women were “raising children alone, were depressed or using illicit substances, were in conflict with a male partner or experiencing domestic violence, had trouble deciding and then had access problems, or were young and nulliparous [had never given birth].”

I can't access any direct links on my phone, but here is an article quoting the study. The article is from a Conservative source, but the quotes are from the study -

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 21, 2019, 06:30:12 PM »
You need to make an appointment with a dr to get them, and then fill a prescription, which means you need medical insurance with low out of pocket fees for the visit in the first place, and then insurance for the pills themselves.

There are also right wingers who are trying to make it no longer required for health plans to offer birth control as an option.

Maybe you can explain why Democrats have been fighting tooth and nail against repeated Republican efforts to make birth control available over the counter?

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 21, 2019, 07:15:09 AM »
Torah is against the free choice of pro-choice movement, but Torah does allow abortions. You would be surprised at how many frum teenagers and women have had abortions because it is not discussed at all within the community. They range from teenage pregnancies to rape to fetuses incompatible with life. If you want a frum woman to be able to follow the psak of her Rabbi if she needs an abortion, you cannot be anti-abortion. They won't be available.

As to the Catholic infiltration - it is only in the last ten years or so that I've heard frum people being so anti-abortion. In years past, everyone I knew was pragmatic and believed abortions should be available for when necessary. I think with the same swing to the right of religion in general, Catholic puritanism has infiltrated in a much more mainstream way.

I agree that we shouldn't push Torah values on the American public. I also believe that until fetus is viable, abortion is a much murkier area than anyone likes to talk about. Until a fetus is viable outside the womb, it is essentially a parasite. That makes it a health issue (mental health included) for the women carrying the baby. Unless you think a woman should be able to order a man's vasectomy, this falls squarely into a women's rights issue. The father has rights once the baby is born.

We definitely kill animals out of convenience and desire. Are you a vegan?

Do you have any torah source for the distinction between before viability and after?

It's really interesting to see that those who are blaming outside influences for the Jewish view are clearly basing their views on a secular culture.

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 21, 2019, 12:25:47 AM »

What's so bad to say that abortion is murder which we allow for convenience, just like we don't get involved in the murder of animals out of convenience.

I think the word you are looking for is "killing" not murder. (Although it depends on your definition of "lawful")

Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 20, 2019, 05:51:14 PM »
I think you need to read up on rape victims and how carrying a fetus to term and delivering it can increase the trauma.

If you think I am disputing that rape causes trama (and that that trama is increased when a pregnancy results) you haven't read a word I wrote.

The point I made repeatedly is that trama, or pain is not a reason to take a life. Obviously if that trama is a risk to the mother's life (as defined by Torah and assessed by a competent posek) then we return to the discussion of rodef.

You say you are pro life because of the Torah, but the Torah is not "pro life" in the American sense of the word.

Yes it is (with exceptions and nuance).

You can't combine abstinence only education with no birth control and expect teenagers to not end up pregnant...

Of course you can. What is the teen pregnancy rate in Williamsburg, Boro Park or Lakewood?

What you can do is bombard kids with sex in culture 24/7 and then expect a sex-ed class with the gym teacher to counter what they see every day on TV.

The bigger problem with this argument is that it pretends that teen/pre-marital sex is fine as long as it doesn't end in pregnancy. That idea certainly doesn't come from Torah...

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