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Messages - Yonah

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 13, 2018, 03:20:45 PM »
If it's set to motion the DVR actually lights up when it starts recording

:) I was talking about something like an Amazon Cloud cam. The camera is on, but only records when motion is detected. The detection of motion in this case is not by a sensor on the camera, but rather, by an app that's viewing the camera feed and noticing object movement between each frame. IOW - your motion isn't triggering anything, but your presence in the constant video feed is being observed and causing something else to write.

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 13, 2018, 11:26:19 AM »
youre not following. The discussion is about cameras that record on motion not always recording

As the OP, my original intent for my poorly worded question was really:

"If shuls have a heter to use security cameras, could that same heter be applied to cameras in a home, or is it easier to give a heter for the tzibbur"

My two secondary questions, that no one has seemed to address:
"Is there a difference between a camera that's constantly recording everything, vs a camera that is always on, but only records when it detects motion or people in its stream?"

"Can something that is D'Lo neicha lei, become retroactive. the example being, I leave my cameras on all the time and don't care about the video from shabbos, until some tries to damage my property or break in on shabbos".

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 13, 2018, 11:22:05 AM »
I don't think so. The issue is kosev. When you walk by the camera records you.

In general your very much generalizing the way systems work. There are many different ways to program how commercial security cameras work but they are essentially no different than a dvr that many people have at home.

If the true issue is kosev, then it wouldn't make a difference if the camera was always on or not, because no matter what causes it to record, you are being recorded in it.

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 12, 2018, 03:46:06 PM »
Iinm psik raisha requires an action. Your triggering of your own camera is lo nicha

Going back to my previous question - in this case, would it make a difference if the motion detection was only to record, and the camera was running the whole time? Similar to what dan pointed out above, if the camera was off until motion was detected, I could see that its like a motion sensing light switch.

but if the camera is always on and recording is started/stopped by pattern detection in the video stream should be treated differently. In the former your entrance turns somethng on. In the latter, your entrance doesn't change anything - the video is already running. the only difference is a 3 process is now detecting a pattern change and deciding to record.

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 12, 2018, 03:42:26 PM »
What does that mean? You own it and are causing a psik reisha dneicha lei.

When does neicha lei begin? Does it begin when I leave it on over shabbos with the idea that I don't want it until a bad person shows up. Or does it begin after shabbos, when I realized that a bad person shows up and might be on my video recording?


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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 12, 2018, 08:44:59 AM »
A camera that's always recording is different than something that records motion.

Dan I thought about this a bit over shabbos. AFAIK, there are essentially three kinds of these cameras:
- One that's continuously on and recording - the example would be commercial security cams; many of these have x number of days of storage.
- One where the camera is completely off until motion is detected, and then turns on and records when it detects motion - i.e. the Blinq cameras work exactly like this
- One where the camera is always on, but only records when it detects motion or people - like the Amazon Cloud cam.

From a halachic perspective, is there any difference between 2 and 3? IMHO, in #2, your motion is turning the camera on, where in 3, you motion itself isn't doing anything, but rather when some service sees a change in the picture it decides to capture it.

I also spoke with someone else about this, and he introduced me to the concept of Psik Raisha D'lo Neicha Lei. In my simple understanding, this allows individuals to walk by someone else's camera on shabbos, but is more problematic for the owner of the camera.

If you own the camera, at any point on shabbos, I can suggest that you don't care about the video - until something happens on shabbos and you retroactively want to check it.

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Tech Talk / Re: Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 12, 2018, 08:37:06 AM »
How would security cameras help for a shooting or other types of brazen violent attacks?

A few ways:
- Many attacks are planned - where the attacker will try to test how easy it is to enter the shul.
- If there is someone watching the cameras, they may be able to detect a person trying to enter and lock down the shul before it happens - this obviously requires a security guard watching the shul.

That being said, there are also instances of vandalism and attempted break-ins to shuls -> such as some of the incidents in williamsburg. Cameras both act as a deterrent and as a means of catching the perpetrators.

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Tech Talk / Security Cameras and Access logging on Shabbos
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:02:20 PM »
I was reading this other thread about the Ring Camera and shabbos, and it spurred me to thinking about Shabbos and Security in a more general sense. In light of what happened in Pittsburgh, I know that this is on the forefront of everyone's mind in the Jewish World, I also know that these are complex issues and need to be addressed with one's LOR for their own individual piskei halacha. However, we're on the Internet, and I'd love to hear people's opinions, especially from those who may no more than I do when it comes to technology, halacha or both.

the original thread is here: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=97433.0

So here are my questions:

I imagine, that because many shuls have them, there is a source for a heter for security cameras on the perimeter of the shul. I would also imagine that all of these cameras are recording on Shabbos - does anyone know the source for this? Is it Pikuach Nefesh? Machmas Chisaron Kis (in the case of vandals?)

If a shul has a heter for security cameras, why not a private home? Is it because the threat is greater? (i.e. more visible and more people)

People have tossed the idea of the video falling under the category of 'D'Lo Nicha Lei' - i.e. it records on Shabbos, but you don't care about using the video. Would that only apply to a non-backed up video?

As a side note to 'D'Lo' Nicha Lei, would that also apply in this situation - someone has a mechanical/electronic hybrid lock on their front door. On shabbos they use the key, and the lock logs that the door was opened closed, but unless you check the logs, the user of the key isn't aware that this is happening. How would that fall under shabbos?

... and finally, given Pittsburgh, do you think that Rabbonim will now start being more meikil on these type of things because the threat level of pikuach nefesh has increased?

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Tech Talk / Re: Disabling Ring doorbell for shabbos
« on: November 09, 2018, 01:42:21 PM »
Oh. I'm on battery  :-\

... uh... pull out one of the batteries before shabbos, and you should be good :)

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Tech Talk / Re: Android Smartwatches
« on: November 06, 2018, 01:11:42 PM »
Looking for a nice womans watch that can show notifications, texts calls etc and doesn't look like a sports item.

Under $100? Android

All of the Fossil brands (Fossil, Michael Kors, Skagen, Hilfiger) fit this bill - if you don't need the latest and greatest you can probably save money with the previous generation. They also have hybrid smartwatches - these look more like regular watches, track activity and will vibrate or have a discrete notification if you get a text or call - but they won't show you the number.

You can probably find the hybrids for< $100, but the regular Wear.OS Previous generation would be in the $150 range.

You can also look at the TicWatch from Mobvoi - https://www.mobvoi.com/us/collections/all
The Vapor Series from Misfit - https://misfit.com/

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Deals/Deal Requests / Rawlings RCS Gloves - BOGO at BaseballMonkey
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:58:13 PM »
Baseball Monkey is offering a BOGO deal on Rawlings RCS Gloves.

These gloves are $74.95 here, but similar ones are selling on Amazon for $45-50. These are low-to-mid range gloves. Free shipping requires $75, so you'd need to add a small filler item to qualify

https://www.baseballmonkey.com/bogo-rawlings-rcs-gloves

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Just Shmooze / Re: Guns Master Thread
« on: October 29, 2018, 03:11:06 PM »
I'm going to assume it's because of the lack of an eiruv maybe. Can't imagine any other reason why someone would leave their gun in a place others can get to.

I would imagine that in general, a gun is considered Muktzah on Shabbos, and if you have a heter to carry one for pikuach nefesh, it would also extend to carrying on shabbos - but I'm no halachic authority.

It's also possible, that their permits technically require their guns to be in a lock box.

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Lime is offering a free scooter or bike rental (30 min) and Uber and Lyft are offering ride discounts on election day. The idea is to get people to go to the polls (although you don't necessarily need to go to the polls to get the discount).

This article lays out the details:

https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/26/ime-free-rides-election-day-november-6/

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Tech Talk / Re: Ring doorbell Cloud subscriptions?
« on: October 03, 2018, 02:58:39 PM »
And what happens when they increase the price of the subscription

Do you mean before or after the cameras are obsolete or EOLd? :)

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Just Shmooze / Re: Yom Kippur Davening
« on: October 03, 2018, 02:57:26 PM »
With a name like yours, no wonder you need extra strength during Neila, after what you've just been through during Mincha.  ;D

Touche.

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