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Messages - sammyp

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*For their brother in laws store.

Looks like you are the one choosing.

I never bashed any Rov. I have the utmost respect for Rabbi Feiner and I have probably heard more Torah from him than you and your friends. Rabbi Feiner is a tremendous Talmid Chochom. That does not mean there is not a serious halachic and hashkafic debate going on here.

I happen to have personally heard from a Rov who told me he called Rabbi Feiner and asked for his name not to be put on these letters. When the Rov saw the letter published with his name, he asked why his name was there against his request. The response was that someone (mis)quoted this Rabbi telling saying that if a few words were changed, the Rabbi would agree to put his name back on. That was an innocent misunderstanding.

That fact is not bashing Rabbu Feiner at all. Rabbi Feiner is a peace maker and he was trying to make everyone happy. He is a great man. That does that another Rabbi who disagrees with him is less great than he.

And btw, if there was a recent review of the Vaad, why can't that review be publicized? Wouldn't that strengthen everyone's trust in the Vaad?

At least we now know where you stand on the amateur lawsuit!

I should have added: As long as he explains it is for political reasons, not kashrus reasons. Unless there us a true breach in kashrus of course.

Like the one who runs mehadrin while his brother in law owns 550?

Or the one that was thrown out of Australia?

Both those Rabbis happen to be great Talmidei Chochomim and were well respected locally before they dared to open a hashgacha. One of them answered the well respected Halacha Hotline for many years.

There are many, many Rabbi whom side with them. They do not have social media and neither do their followers.

So what you are saying is, you can bash Rabonim as long as they don't follow in toe with your opinions?!?

Note: I did not bash any Rabbis besides the one who is paid top dollar to lead the Vaad and does not live here. I respect all local Rabonim and understand and appreciate difference of opinions.

You, on the other hand, are bashing.

Somebody told me their Rov told his kehila that if you live locally you cannot eat from Mehadrin, but if you are visiting from out of town, it's fine. Actually I heard this from a few Rabonim. It is not a kashrus issue. A Rov has every right to advise his kehilla to eat or not to eat somewhere. But to be clear, this is not Kashrus related.

"Filing lawsuits against town Rabbonim and crying to NY Post isn't vocal or social media?"

The Rabbis didn't file anything, and neither did 550.

Can you please write why the owner of 550 decided to chnage hechsher?
I have no idea who owns 550. But if he also owns banners, like people are saying, he must have a lot of experience dealing with multiple hashgochos. Many different certifiers certify brands made by banners.

He must have had some issue dealing with the Vaad that provoked him to switch. I have no idea. I never read his son's Facebook page. I don't even know who he is.

There are some really great Rabbis on both sides here. This is obviously a machokes. That does not take away from the greatness of the Rabbis on either side. There is a difference of opinion here. People should stop taking things so personal. I never view anybody else's opinions as an attack on the other side's Rabbis. (They have quite a few. But they are not vocal and do not use it have access to social media)

There have been difference of opinions for many generations. As chazal say "eilu v'eilu...". There is nothing personal here.

If anyone here went to the white shul dinner this past week (as I did) you would have heard the most intense haskama for the vaad by r Feiner. He basically dedicated his dinner speech by iterating that the rabbanim on the vaad are completely lsheim shamayim and they never took a dime as payment and never will. The vaad of 5t had a kashrus audit by one of the leading names in kashrus in america (he didnít say his name) and told r Feiner after the audit this vaad is head and shoulders above any vaad in america.
Honestly I felt a little weird as Iíve never heard r Feiner speak so politically but he was on fire about it.
(He tied in how he hates machlokes w parshas korach etc)

Rabbi Feiner is a great man.

 I assume you know, he is the author of all the letters "signed" by the 53 Rabonim. He is the bridge between the left and the right. He also mistakes out down some names when those Rabbis specifically asked not to be out on. Maybe it was a misunderstanding.

The problem is that he, and many others do not know Kashrus and completely trust Rabbi Eisen. I will double check, but I am almost positive there was no recent audit by anybody other than Rabbi Eisen himself.

You can ask Rabbi Feiner if he is aware that the Vaad allows purchasing chometz from C&S. No other Vaad allows that, and is against AKO standards. Ask him if he knows how Seasons has checked colored (purple) kale at times when all other checkers in the tri-state area said it was too infested to get cleaned. Or how the Vaad allows stores to sell infested produce with a sticker "not checked" , when they know it is too infested to clean and the consumer will for sure be eating bugs.

How about did they audit non-jewish and non-sabbath observing owners having full access to their kitchens?

Just some recent examples.

If they were audited by anybody besides Rabbi Eisen himself, they would post an article with pictures showing the expert here.

Rabbi Feiner is a great man. But he is also a little too trusting.

You have mentioned this a number of times yet despite having been asked you have declined to quote what the basis for this is.

When the Rabonim summonsed to the Brooklyn beis din refused to respond to the hazmana, a heater arkaos was offered.

@sammyp what is your personal connection or relationship to 550?

I have never walked into that place in my life. I don't know who owns it either. I do know some people involved in the lawsuit and Beis din process. I also know so witnesses.

I also personally heard from Rabonim who's told me their names were forged on that letter.

Many Rabbis are not fans if the Vaad. They are just not vocal about it because they don't want to be harassed. But their followers know.

A great Rabbi watching there does show some validity to their Kashrus.

Does the owner of 550 restaurant and owns banner fish ,had insurance on the losses now with the recall ? Wonder if that was a sign from hashem because the chilul hashem he caused in the kashrus world

Probably not. Because then the ones who really cause the Chilul Hashem would be in trouble.

What Chilul Hashem are you referring to anyway? 550 didn't even go to court (although they were allowed to). They went to a Beis Din in Brooklyn. That is what Beis Din is made for. To determine who was right according to Halacha. When the Rabbis wouldn't come, and even pulled out of an agreed zabla (this info was missing from article posted on local website), 550 backed down and did not go to court.

550 were the ones who followed the rules. They did not cause any Chillul Hashem.

In fact, one of the most learned and greatest Talmidei Chochomim on town made a simcha at 550 even after the suit was filed in Beis Din. They have some big Rabonim on their side and they did everything quietly and properly.

You owe them an apology.

Store? LOL I put MANY hours of research into these works well before there were stores "removing" them.

My source is my many hours of research into these worms and hilchos tolaim that were used as sources by various well know poskim across the spectrum.

Can you provide the name of one posek who says there is a Halachic difference?

I have also done a lot of research, including hands on. I have never spoken to anybody who differentiates between the two. I have also seen the worms being removed from both.

They are.

Did you go to a store and see them?

What is your source for the Halachic difference?

I guess the crux of my statement was your statement that the Chof-K doesn't approve of it can't be true if they are the ones handling the mechira

The story was that Rabbi Belsky zt"l wanted to re-do the sale so it will work at least b'dieved for those who might mistakenly purchase chometz from Stop & Shop or any other store supplied by C&S after Pesach. However, he did not have the resources or connections to make the sale happen. Chof-K is the certifier on C&S year round. They offered to implement this mechira with no cost to anybody since they go in there anyway and they already had a relationship with the company.

They do not allow their establishments to purchase chometz owned by C&S over Pesach l'chatchila.

The OU follows the psak of Rabbi Soleveichick zt"l who did not allow or rely on any mechira for big companies. Rabbi Gersten of the OU has said publicly in many shiurim that Rabbi Belsky zt"l held this new mechira was only in case of a b'dieved and not to be relied on l'chatchila.

The ones in white fish are very different from the ones in wild salmon both factually and halachically.

They would like to believe that they are able to find and remove them but that has been shown to be folly by many scientific studies.

I don't know what scientific studies you are talking about. Go into Gourmet Glatt by the Ossies fish department. As for Rabbi Beer (I think that's his name). He is an expert on fish worms. He can show you them.

Instead of reading scientific stuff off the web, you might want to do some real hands-on research like I did. I saw them with my own eyes. I only took a picture of the white fish though.


Your statement about Pesach and C&S is just plain wrong and based on the old situation. The Chof-K took over the mechira from the prior Rov who was handling it (which was a more controversial/questionable mechira)

But it fits with the rest of your diatribe :)


I spoke to Rabbi Gersten in the OU who arranged this new mechira with Rabbi Belsky ZTL and he told me it was only meant to work as a b'dieved. Rabbi Belay felt the old mechira was worthless.

I also spoke to the Rabbi in the Chof-K who worked with Rabbi Belsky ZTL and who is actually the one who makes the mechira with C&S! I spoke to him again this year. He told me it is only done to make the best possible b'dieved. He confirmed with me that it is not meant to be relied on as a l'chatchila.

That is also the current position of the Star-K and AKO.

Facts matter.

Thousand apologies to you sir. I have no stake here whatsoever, I just felt sorry for you with the issues you have with Covid/Kashrus in the 5T and offered some humor.. I take it fully back if it came across offensive.
You and others are implying that you want the Kashrus here to stay status quo, and you are also acknowledging that in places like Lakewood there might be a higher standard.

I am happy we agree on this issue. That is why for those that live in this area, there is a need for another Hashgacha to satisfy the "Lakewood" people that happen to live here.

I am not asking the Vaad to change. That will never happen, especially because most people here do not want change and the restrictions that come along with change. I am just asking them not to get upset when other agencies open. As we see here, the community is diverse. Just like we need different types of shuls and schools, we need different standards of certification.

You might not want a Hashgacha which does not allow certain greens, while others prefer that. Why should they have to move to Lakewood? Let that crowd have their own Hashgacha without slandering them.

I think we should start a GoFundMe to help @sammyp relocate to Lakewood ??? ;D

Please explain comment. If you want to dispute something I wrote, go ahead. If you mean you want everything to remain status quo without anybody bothering you, then I am not the one with the problem.

I provided a picture because people were curious about what the new sign meant. Someone misunderstood that it meant checking vegetables, which is mandatory and done at all Vaad establishments according to Vaad standards.

I was trying to explain why the checking in fish is optional.

This photo was actually taken at a local establishment which is under the Vaad who check and remove these worms. I personally eat from this establishment's fish and trust their process in removing these worms.

I provided factual information, and you get offended. That does not reflect well on you. Argue the facts. Don't shoot insults.

Pas yisroel and yoshon can be optional, but isn't big checking necessary?

Checking for the worms in fish is a machlokes. They are pretty large and gross. But since they grow in the flesh of the skin of the fish, it is debatable if they are halachicly prohibited.

Some poskim hold they are o.k. to eat, and not everyone checks for them even when they know they are present.

They are very often found in white fish, and in wild salmon. The farmed salmon never had these worms. (Costco sells both types of salmon frozen. The farmed is worm free.

Personally, even if they are kosher, I would never touch fish with them.

When they are present, the expert knows how to locate them in the flesh and remove them. They are very hard to find and remove. They are alive and can blend in to the fish.

In this picture, the expert removed some of them from the white fish.

Anyway, there are ways to pressure the vaad into labeling different shechitas for example, without resorting to erkaos

Shechita labeling is just a small example. It happens to be they were pressured for years to do it. Even the Rabbis behind Mehadrin begged for it before opening their own hasgacha. The Vaad wouldn't budge. They have all kinds of excuses. They also don't let the stores label the repackaged candies/nuts. Almost all Vaadim label which hashgacha certifies the repackaged product. The Vaad feels if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for everyone.

There are many other issues too. There is nothing wrong with having different hashgachos in a place as large as ours to satisfy our diverse community.

I actually feel bad for the few Vaad Rabonim involved because they are good people and mean well. They are unfortunately being taken for a ride by the Vaad Kashrus administrator who will not let anybody get in his way. When a problem is discovered, instead of addressing the problem, he gets rid of the problem-finder. Hw will not take any advice from anybody. The Vaad would look a lot different without him.

Why can't we in the Five Towns have at least the same standards as his Kehila Kashrus in Flatbush? If that would be the standard, the stores would have to go along with it. Don't we deserve at least that?!?

Opening a new vaad is not the same as opening another shul. Once there is no longer a single vaad in a town, many more will open and there will most likely be a drop in standards for many establishments . Nobody wants their city looking like BP with a hundred rebbeles giving their own hechsher

Competition only helps improve, as it already apparent from the Vaad's attempt to upgrade.

The teshuvos written about opening new shuls apply to Vaadim and kashrus organizations too.

Our Vaad's standards is pretty close to the lower end standards in Brooklyn. It would be great if our Vaad would be on the high end, but a large part of our local community do not want a stricter supervision. For example, people here want purple Kale on a constant basis while elsewhere there are many months where the certifiers feel it is too infested to be cleaned. Those who want a mehudar kashrus standard deserve to have one. Now there is no place they can eat because they have no idea which standard each place is adhering to.

The Vaad is attempting to address this issue, but there signs and policy are too vague to run an organization on multi levels. (For example, the Vaad will not take responsibility or even allow stores to label which shechita the beef or poultry is. They feel that if it's good for the Vaad it's good for everyone. But some people only eat particular shechitas. Every other Vaad allows strores to label the product. So those who are particular must buy there beef and poultry in Brooklyn. The sign on the eateries listing six different shechitas is too vague and doesn't help anything. essentially they list every Glatt Kosher shechita there is!)

And again, our Vaad aministrator had no problem starting Kehila Kashrus to up the standard from the Vaad of Flatbush. Now that he's on the flip side of the coin, he takes issue.

Is allowing chicken hearts a step up? Because that was one of the big changes they allowed when they took over kinneret. So again, what was their motivation to start the hechsher?
The answer can be money.

I never heard anything about chicken hearts, and I do not know if you have any reliable sources.

I do know that both Rabbis of Mehadrin are respectable talmidei chochomim. Neither one is gaining money from this.

They worked with the Vaad extensively to make improvements. It failed.

Why would a Rabbi open a shul in the same vicinity of an other shul? Money? Honor? It doesn't matter. The Rabbi down the block would and should never slander the other Rabbi or his shul. They might work on improving their current shul so as to keep their members from leaving them.

The Vaad should do the same.

It does not matter why the Mehadrin opened. maybe it was l'shem shomayim, maybe money, maybe kavod. Maybe not. It doesn't matter. Regardless, they have good legal standing in Beis Din and Court.

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