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COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Is Covid Spiking in Boro Park?
« on: September 08, 2020, 02:37:39 AM »

People: ďBut there havenít been any hospitalizations! Nobody is getting really sick! The strain is lighter!Ē

So really nobody learns from round one nobody learned that the disease can go around very quietly and stealth like.

That by the way it works, If you know of 10 people that have it, 1000 have it.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Lakewood covid cases
« on: September 08, 2020, 02:35:33 AM »
Itís not March. Itís not going to be like March. Letís not get carried away.

Even if you tried to replicate the events in March, the R0 is going to be far lower- even under the most pessimistic assumptions over 30% of Lakewood has had covid. Treatment protocol for those who are in respiratory distress are vastly different. Etc.

You edited your post but still I worry about the whole stigma when they want to keep it quiet and they want to keep the schools open so they are going to tell people who have it to not get tested and to just stay home and therefore they are not going to get treatment when they need it in time.

Doctors have told me that many of the patients that they lost when people who came too late for treatment

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Lakewood covid cases
« on: September 08, 2020, 02:33:12 AM »
Itís not March. Itís not going to be like March. Letís not get carried away.

Yes education is much better as is prevention and so was knowledge of treatment.

But could you really say that you really trust people to act responsibly? I have seven different bridges to sell you.

Even in Miami even at the quietest times I only trusted people who I knew I could trust with my life and I knew who were responsible and if anybody in their family had symptoms or anybody that they were in contact with had symptoms they would tell me and they would stay away from me.

A close friend of mine  had Corona and I when I brought him food he was totally like yeah okay give it to me I'm wearing a mask?!?

Dude!! I said no.. I left the food on top of my car and I closed the doors and windows before he came.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Lakewood covid cases
« on: September 08, 2020, 02:05:50 AM »
What's so shocking?

When I said people going back to life like normal I wanted to know what happened?

And then they said well we all got it! It's gone! Herd immunity!!

Wear a mask? Naw!!

I have no more energy, I would like life to go back to normal as much as possible, I understand both sides of the argument.

But there's no excuse for people to not be lazy, There's no excuse for anybody to make baseless arguments.

Speak sh** and I will hold it against you for life

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Lakewood covid cases
« on: September 06, 2020, 11:19:03 PM »
The extreme shut downs don't work because once opened, everyone rushed back to normal life.

"We all got it" they said.

 Judaism is resilient, we survived it all and that's the general mentality, big deal!

Except the modern day needs for life are much different than in times past, they had secret weddings in Nazi germani and stalinist russia and they didn't NEED hundreds of people.

Putting everyone at risk is sickening.. but the goyim are doing it, meh

I'm not saying that every thing being done causes virus spread, or that everyone getting the virus will die etc

Wear a f&+#@g mask. Nebech on your being uncomfortable for 5 minutes

But it does play into "bishvili nivra ha'olam' mentality. Reminded of the video of the guy smoking a cigarette while mbd tells him to stop.. it's my lungs.. It's not my problem if you all die from second-hand smoking

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Lakewood cases
« on: September 03, 2020, 11:42:50 AM »
How do we know herd immunity exists ? Outside of vaccinations, if reinfection is a possibility, you're just making wild assumptions.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Is Covid Spiking in Boro Park?
« on: September 03, 2020, 03:20:45 AM »
I am not going to engage in this again.

Experience from the first time around has shown that people are only interested in arguing against anything, rather than simply do their part.

People are so ingrained in anything they do, wearing a mask indoors and decreasing exposure is a very small thing to ask, still, people will fight tooth and nail like a talmudic debate.

I have stomach issues at times, one part is from much coffee, wine etc..

The other may be lack of fluid in my colon, various foods including fried, cabbage family veggies, raw veggies etc so on and so forth.

Now, when my gut goes, ok I'll have a bad night, 3-4 hours sleep.. it sucks but meh..but I'll implement changes

Then do this for a week and it really forces me to act. 3-4 hours a night on every night besides Shabbat  will make you run.

I love beer, I don't drink it often, my stomach hates it.

I try to manage my acidity, I take prelief to lower acid, I only do paper filtered chemex coffee or cold brew, I eat before coffee

And you know the list is endless, I love french fries but how old is the oil in the store?

Sometimes I make changes and they are seemingly no help and I fe like eh just f#@$ it.

And sometimes everything is all fine and dandy and I want to throw caution in the wind.

Maturity is part of growing up.

ďInsanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.Ē

What's my point ? Who knows what's gonna happen, all your arguments make you look silly and stupid, sure I was wrong, we didn't run out of ventilators and ventilators were killing people.

But just as they found cures like proning, remdesivir etc

They also find out possible long term damages from the virus and possible reinfection.

 Will wearing a mask help you / others? Most likely, it's a minor thing to do for possible huge gains.

Studies show that large numbers indoors talking loudly, singing etc are a prime ground for the virus.

Will you infect a random passerby outdoors as you pass them for 2 seconds? Likely not.

However, you have the responsibility that you may have God forbid been reinfected and now you walk down the street casually and sneeze and those droplets go bada bing and infect someone else.

Oops.. well, it's his fault for not staying home, seeing as he has health issues and what not.

Just wear the damn mask, people make this like an opposition to some suppressive decrees "oh well you just go along and wear a mask just like you're told, just like our forefathers put on yellow stars"

Life is long and life is short, the older I get, the more tolerant I am of others, the more I also demand from others.  If I'm growing up, they should do.

One day we'll all die, what happens then? I don't know

I try not to burn my bridges in life and work to drink responsibily

I can see the validity of many points, but the bottom line is, do it for the sake of others.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: Is Covid Spiking in Boro Park?
« on: August 25, 2020, 11:18:00 AM »
If I'm reading this correctly, you have 3 points: a) your Rav gave a psak for your city that the local EOs are not valid al pi halacha, b) Jews value life more than the medical establishment, and c) Jewish communal life has a value so great that we should be ok taking certain risks in order to preserve it.

Regarding point A: I don't doubt your version of the realities in your community. However, you have to understand that an anonymous DDFer posting about an anonymous Rav in an anonymous place giving a psak that isn't on paper... it just doesn't carry a lot of weight. I have yet to see a psak on paper by a Rov or BD explaining why EOs can or should be ignored.

To point B: I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. However, the facts on the ground seem to contradict this. When doctors are asking us to take certain precautions in order to keep people from getting sick, and we blatantly ignore them because we know better, it sends a contradictory message. Why is it that once someone is sick Klal Yisroel moves heaven and earth to help them and keep them alive, but when it comes to keeping people from getting sick in the first place, we shrug our shoulders and say "acceptable risk?"

To point C: we're past the point of shuls being closed in almost every place. Tefila b'tzibur is not at risk. Learning in a beis medrash is not at risk. We may need to limit the amount of people in a room at a time, but that's not new. There have been fire codes and capacity limits since the 1920's. Masks don't prevent communal events. They may be uncomfortable and inconvenient, but they are stopping Jews from doing what we feel is essential to our Yiddishkeit.

So really the only point of contention here is weddings. Let's look at that for a second. According to the science available to us right now, there are certain settings which have been documented as being responsible for spreading the virus at a very high rate. Restaurants are one; bars and nightclubs are another. In general, indoor gatherings present much more risk than outdoor ones. Without c"v comparing the holiness of our weddings to these other settings, we have to acknowledge that the functions of those settings are replicated at our weddings. There is loud music, drinking, singing, dancing, eating, prolonged contact at tables without masks, and all in indoor settings. Turns out, the things that make our weddings great also makes them hotspots. And you don't need to be a scientist to see that since Tisha B'Av, we've seen a very noticeable uptick in cases, almost always traced back to weddings. So now that we've ascertained the risks of our weddings, independent of EOs, how can we justify putting people's health at risk in order to be mesameach chosson v'kallah?

Anecdotally: there was a wedding near me last week. There was a Covid exposure from someone who wasn't wearing a mask, ironically, from CA... because in FL we need to import our exposures. The whole family, including chosson and kallah, spent a very miserable shabbos sheva brachos at home, scared for friends and family who may have gotten sick. I don't care how happy you may be making the young couple at the wedding, it can't outweigh the feelings of the next week or longer if people got sick at their wedding.

I didn't go all the way back to see this and was about to reply.. but now that I see your response 👌

So doctors don't value lives while Jews do.. but Jews know more than doctors since we have a monopoly on the value of life and we are currently dictating the priorities?

He worries about zoom culture . I worry about a future generation that sees no point in following medical guidance.

Theres always some askan who knows better!

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: What is FL hiding?
« on: August 02, 2020, 01:55:59 PM »
Take a break for a week. FL's hospitalizations are lower than they've been in a while, at 8245 current hospitalizations with the main diagnosis of Covid. However, there have been over 3300 new hospitalizations in the last 7 days, so over 4500 people vacated their beds in the last week. Either they all got better....

One doctor told me that they are having more patients recover than before

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: What is FL hiding?
« on: July 26, 2020, 01:02:43 PM »
On the other hand, testing sites botched up numbers.

The mentality seems to be that if we get it, we get it.

We take precautions etc but realistically people aren't going back to April and May.

I have cancelled so far 6 rt trips and my annual western road trips.

It's really not the governor or anything. It's just people . You see people hanging out by the beach , partying etc

Skateboard park at haulover packed with probably upper middle class white kids

I see black folks at the beach, white folks, Latina etc . It's not a demographic, age or politics thing.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: So How Was Your Shul This Week?
« on: July 19, 2020, 01:33:52 PM »

Why did they actually trust people to follow the rules?

It's been proven repeatedly that people just do what they want

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: What is FL hiding?
« on: July 13, 2020, 03:12:47 PM »
It's pretty full here. Most people just still aren't serious.

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: What is FL hiding?
« on: July 10, 2020, 12:54:51 PM »
@chevron That's a lot to process... Let me try to clarify.

I don't want the state locked down. I do want them to take the virus seriously and to tell the truth to the people they answer to. I don't want them to make life impossible for residents. I do want them to impose restrictions that make it less attractive to tourists for a while. I don't want a nanny state, but I do want a regulatory environment that encourages prioritizing the public's safety. Most of all, I want a unified voice from all public officials saying, "this is not a joke, please take it seriously." Because when it turns into a political sh!tshow, people tune out and just dismiss anything Covid-related as "someone else's politics."

They said it's not a joke... And you think 20 year olds are listening? Or 30 year olds?

People just Wana live.. it's not a thing of the times, people also kept their normal lives up during wars.

As for tourism, it's 93 and feels like 105.. what nut job will visit ?

COVID-19 Discussion Board / Re: What is FL hiding?
« on: July 10, 2020, 12:40:05 PM »
There's nothing the government can do to stop this entirely. Backyard parties are probably spreading it.

So now it's a nanny state? Call the cops? That should help the BLM movement...

I had to go yesterday to laundromat, it's Miami style so mostly open.

Some were wearing masks pulled down to chin, some weren't.

What should I do Go lecture  everybody? Call 911?

I put my wash in far from them and got the heck out.

So what are you going to do now close all the laundromat because somebody didn't wear a mask?

And since I'm anyways supposed to stay home I do it rashbi style? Naked all day ?!?

For a man who goes for Democrats, @CountValentine  has little idea how the lower class function.

They'd probably save $ eating at home, but many of these people survive on fast food takeout and cheap kitchen style stuff.

And the kids would go crazy if they can't go out.

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