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Messages - zh cohen

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166
Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 20, 2019, 05:27:50 PM »
I take very strong exception to this line. How can you not take the mother into account?

I think his point was that because we are dealing with a competition between the mother's pain vs. the baby's life, the life is our primary focus

167
Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 20, 2019, 04:33:23 PM »

Yes - hashem wants her to be raped. I'm sure she deserves it.

That is a despicable misstatment of my views and I would have expected better from you.

What if boils down to is that you believe
We're not talking about killing a baby. We're talking about killing a fetus that isn't viable outside the womb,

And therefore it is ok to kill him or her if the inconvenience or suffering of the mother is enough, and Torah says that it is murder (although on a somewhat lesser level) and therefore the only reason it can be allowed is to save a life.

The difference between your view and that of Planned Parenthood's is just a question of degree.

And to your suggestion that I speak to a rape survivor, I recommend that you speak to an abortion survivor or someone who was concieved by rape.

168
Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 20, 2019, 10:42:36 AM »

Just like you,  I believe that there are two wrongs here - the first is the rape itself, and the second forcing the woman to bear the fruit of this evil attack. It's bad enough that this woman needs to bear the scars of the attack itself - why do we doubly punish her by forcing the illegal fruits of the attack on her?

I would hope than many rabbonim, if presented this situation, would find an opportunity to provide such a victim with a heter to have an abortion.

It is not us forcing this baby on her, its the rapist (and G-d). I don't think you "fix" a horrible situation by doing another horrible thing to an innocent baby.

169
Tech Talk / Re: Throwaway email providers
« on: May 19, 2019, 11:11:23 AM »
But that will still send you mail going forward, the point is not to get spammed with all the unnecessary stuff

You can set up a filter that any mail going to that email goes straight to spam (or even deletes).

170
Just Shmooze / Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« on: May 17, 2019, 05:40:09 PM »

But it's okay to abort a fetus that was the result of incest?


What does singling out incest, in a separate category from rape, add to this conversation? I'm assuming you are referring to a specific category of rape, namely rape, statutory or otherwise, by a relative. So why mention that category explicitly?

To the heart of the question, no-one is rejecting the idea that a woman carrying her rapist's baby brings unimaginable pain to the woman. Pro-life people just as much sympathy for the woman who is going through that. We just believe that two wrongs don't make a right and that abortion is wrong.

171
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 17, 2019, 12:30:00 AM »
Also ס' ס'ט and several others there.

You can also find R' Moshe's view on permissive abortion laws there

172
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 16, 2019, 10:49:52 PM »
אגרות משה חושן משפט חלק ב' סוף ס' עא amongst many others.

Also ס' ס'ט and several others there.

173
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 16, 2019, 10:16:01 PM »
I already quoted a summary of the tzeiz Eliezer above. Do you have a source that abortion is prohibited even in the case of rape?

אגרות משה חושן משפט חלק ב' סוף ס' עא amongst many others

174
Just Shmooze / Re: Mediterranean diet
« on: May 16, 2019, 07:17:03 PM »

I think more important than not eating meat is what you 'are' eating.

Indeed. I haven't eaten red meat more than 5-6 times a year for 8 years and gained 25-30 lbs over that time.

175
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 16, 2019, 05:42:34 PM »
Also, this tidbit: My father-in-law, the late Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, felt very strongly that allowing government to legislate in any area of morals and ethics gives them a toe-hold in religion, and if you let them in a little bit, the government will begin toexpand its role in this area and start less - lating what is proper to teach and what isproper to do in areligious context. Now, Rabbi Feinstein had lived some 10 to 15 years under Stalin and his experience of the Russian government's total involvement in the religious life ofthe Jew was so traumatic that he held fast to the idea that we should keep the government away from religion even in those instances where its legislation might seem to be supportive of the Torah point of view. For Rabbi Feinstein, the complete separation of church and state, was absolutely necessary for the survival of any minority group. What is the right approach? I really don't know. I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state and I believe that minority religious rights are best protected if government protects the rights of each individual to practice his religion without imposing any restrictions. I don't want to be the one making a decision between the Lubavitcher Rebbe's opinion and Rabbi Feinstein's opinion, but I lean inthe direction of Rabbi Feinstein. Perhaps there is a little nepotism at work here.

(same source as above).

How do either of these quotes support this statement;
To echo this, I don't think a single mainstream posek in the world would require a woman to carry her rapist's baby unwillingly rather than get an abortion in the first 40 days.

176
Just Shmooze / Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« on: May 16, 2019, 12:06:53 AM »
The VIN article lists him as Dr Andrew Wakefield?

As did the advertisement for the event.

177
Just Shmooze / Re: Vaccine Discussion Master Thread
« on: May 15, 2019, 06:46:37 PM »
Why hasn't andrew Wakefield medical license been stripped?

It has

178
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 15, 2019, 06:43:53 PM »
If abortion is as immoral as you say, how come it's sometimes allowed in the case of a mental heath issue for the mother that's not life threatening?

Because those poskim consider mental health to be considered סכנת אבר.

Also, something can be immoral in some circumstances, and a mitzvah in others.

179
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 15, 2019, 06:28:06 PM »
Ah, so it's our land with our government with our rulers now?

You'll notice I didn't quote that part of your post. The fact that it is not our land just means that our ability to fulfill our obligation is limited. For most of the past 2000 years it was completely impossible, however today there are ways that we can.

180
Just Shmooze / Re: Abortion = Murder?
« on: May 15, 2019, 06:21:15 PM »
Not our job, not our responsibility.

Wrong. וכן צוה משה רבינו מפי הגבורה לכוף את כל באי העולם לקבל מצות שנצטוו בני נח

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