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« on: February 15, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
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Doesn't seem to be which way? I never professed to know the realityWell, you kind of continued the argument of the previous poster who said the reality is that a guy can't get a girl who's out of his league. When I argued this point, you said that hishtadlus must take into account reality, which implied that his opinion is reality.Quote
I didn't create any realities or leagues. Wish I could though.The reality as it is now doesn't seem to be this way. There are families with money that are makpid on marrying wealthy, but usually this is only from a "practical" standpoint, and even these are willing to be mivater for the right shidduch. In terms of looks, 99% of girls aren't makpid to have a guy they consider as "attractive" as they are. So a guy who isn't good looking nor has money has quite a shot at dating girls "out of his league" and in reality is maasim bchol yom.
Hishtadlus may be a personal cheshbon and not for others to judge, but the cheshbon in determining what is your Hishtadlus must consider reality.Of course. But you're the one creating this so-called "reality" that there are leagues when it comes to superficial qualities. In my opinion that's pretty ridiculous.
I think the idea that people should be supported in learning is part of the problem. In the alter heim, there were very few people who learned full time with no parnassah. In the gemara every amora had a job.Woah. Support for your comments? Every amorah worked? This argument is age-old, the taanaim argued about the proper way to go about learning and living, and people far greater than you and I have discussed this topic, our input is meaningless as to what is "right." Bringing proof from earlier generations where people who made a living at the same time as learning is ridiculous, unless you mean we should be like the Rambam's "Baal habas" who learned 9 hours a day. Nowadays it's hard enough to be properly holding in learning as a full time yeshiva bochur, let alone working.
This model of a kollel society is not sustainable and I think that is part of the underlying shidduch "crisis".
True that G-D is the master shadchan but people have to do Hishtadlus and be realistic and not bark up the wrong tree. It probably wont get you very far if you have nothing going for you and all you are looking for is the daughter of a multi-billion dollar CEO who is less than a size 2 and just drop dead gorgeous. You have to know where you are holding and broaden your playing field to people who are somewhat near your league.Hishtadlus is a personal cheshbon, it can never be used on a scale larger than that. In terms of being "realistic," again, everybody has their own cheshbon, which is completely personal and can't be figured out nor judged (if ever) by someone else, let alone on a large scale. But again, the point is that there are no "leagues" when it comes to the less important qualities like looks and wealth. If people feel more entitled because they've been blessed with those qualities, that is their prerogative and takes some serious cheshbon as to whether or not they have the proper negiyus.
No, he said the people group other people into leaguesConfused as to which side you're taking :-)
People try living in denial and don't recognize who they really are.Ah. So you're saying that G-d groups people into "leagues" based on the amount of mazal in looks and wealth that He grants them? I find it hard to believe that when the Malochim call out potential zivugim, HaShem turns to em and says "c'mon, she's gonna be WAY out of his league, what are you thinking?? I plan on having her born to a CEO and this guy's fathers a Rebbe! How can he possibly expect to marry her??