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Re: Car Lease Master Thread
CMIIW but I believe that this is not true. There is interest if you put in the payments

I am not sure why, but it doesn't work that way. When they advertise with money down on a 36 month least, divide the money down by 36, add to monthly payment, and that's what youll pay per month with nothing down. Most places will even let you roll in DMV feed and insurance waiver.

For some reason, interest has no effect on this.

January 20, 2018, 07:20:57 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
I do think they are well compensated considering they only work 2/3 of the year


I feel bad for your kids teachers!

I assume we are talking about the main home-room morning teacher/ Rebbi. You are obviously not in any position of understanding the job of a teacher.

You try sitting in a classroom with 30 kids every day. It doesn't matter what age. You try having the patience dealing with 30 different, and some challenging, personalities for hours a day. You try teaching material in an interesting way and grabbing the attention of each student in the classroom, while every single word you say is weighed and measured and you are held accountable. One second of lost temper can cost them their job.

Most good teachers/ Rabeim go through extensive training just for the classroom management part of teaching. Many of our fine teachers/ Rabeim go home after school and plotz from exhaustion.

Then, when they go home, they are not done. There is hours of preparation of the materiel. A small slip-up in class can cause a teacher a lot of trouble. Everything has to be 100% accurate. Then there's typing sheets, grading papers, dealing with parents on a nightly basis. Yes, in a classroom of 30, most teachers will spend hours upon hours with parents weekly. Then there's discussing issues with principals etc. A teacher who leaves their classroom at 1, will usually not get home until 3.

Maybe drive by your children's teacher's house and see when their lights go off at night. They are on call weekends too. Rabeim don't even have Sundays off. Not one day to "just catch up" on things.

Then there are meetings, training, networking, etc. which happen out of the class time.

Teaching is not for everyone. But as you and some others show in their posts, it is a thankless job. Teachers are professional as are lawyers and doctors. The only difference is, teachers have less free time and still can't pay their bills.

And btw, it is pretty  disgusting how are system is set up. Rabeim and Mechanchos are on completely different pay scales. In many ways, it is harder for for the women. They have to still take care of their house and children like every mother, and still hold out the same responsibilities as the Rabeim. Why do they get paid 1/4 what the Rabeim get. They also do not share the same benefits. In any other society, the women would get together and take action..

January 31, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
Look. I'm really not trying to get into an argument here that teachers are or aren't leshem shamayim. But the fact is that many come out way ahead financially while working much less hours and fewer days than in a job in the business world.

Plus many of these yeshivas and BYs don't require much in the qualifications department. So it can often be easier to get a Morah job than something else.

Really?!? A not-good Morah lasts maybe one year in today's day and age. Schools have a very hard time finding qualified Morahs to fill positions. Ask any principal. Low-supply, but still embarrassing pay.

They come out way ahead?!? You obviously don't understand the life of those in k'lei Kodesh. Get to know some of them better and get to know how well they are doing financially. Some are making it fine. Many, if not most, struggle horribly.

January 31, 2018, 10:29:55 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
Was it being served? I assume the mashgiach is supposed to check to make sure all chometz is locked up, so it does sound like the fault lies with the vaad. If it wasn't served it wouldnt seem to be as egregious as some make it sound.

If it wasn't served, it wouldn't be a story. All chometz is included in mechira, whether locked up or not.

If it wasn't served, or at least almost served, there would be no cameras going up

April 24, 2018, 02:04:56 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread The place by Stop and Shop on Burnside is cheapest with largest selection. The frum place on Central is also reasonable.
May 02, 2018, 11:43:39 AM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
Are there any shuls in the area that do slichos at like 10 or 11pm?

BTW, Selichos should not be said before around 12:48 a.m.(chatzos)  on any night, especially Motzei Shabbos. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, this practice does not conform with Halacha.

September 19, 2019, 10:38:57 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
They also support the community through chesed and sponsorship.

The biggest Chessed would be to lower their prices! Forcing us to pay money so they can support the community is Sanders style.

March 05, 2020, 11:42:18 PM
Re: Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
Again ordinarily I could care less about what Yenem is doing but to advocate against a clear precedent established by 99% of the Rabbis and the leading doctors and you can potentially kill people - I don’t understand the need to find loopholes and argue. We are talking about people dying - how is that not the end of the conversation?

Do you think Rabbi finer doesn’t want to daven with a minyan? Rabbi Perr? Rabbi Jeager? Rabbi Brown? Our utmost respected and revered Roshei Yeshivas the ones we put our children’s education in their hands, but they give a ruling based on medical experts that could potentially save lives and we all know better?

I am perplexed.

You are perplexed because you are so one-sided, you keep on repeating the same misinformation.

This is a worldwide issue, not a local one. At least 90% of the Rabinim with consultation with Health Experts feel there is nothing wrong with these minyanim. That is also the opinion of Dr. Fauci and his team of the top doctors in the the world.

True, there are very great Rabbis on the other side. But they are the minority. You must follow your Rabbi and not belittle those who don't agree with you. The Rabbis you mentioned are not belittling those who disagree with them.

If you saw are privy to see the letters and other communication from our local health experts to our Rabbis, you would be quite depressed. I saw these communications and understand based of that information why a Rabbi would prohibit minyanim. But according to these health experts, we must remain in quaranteen until a vaccine is developed and a full study is concluded. That means we will be home and society should be closed for another year and a half.

Ask your Rabbi to show you the communications they are getting their information from.

Most health officials in the world, including Trumps team are not so pessimistic. Other communities and their Rabinim are getting their advice from other experts. For your sanity, I would advise you to do the same. When I first saw some of the local communications, I was very down. Then I started to do some more research and became much more optimistic.

In addition, many things we do in life have a risk factor. Driving a car,, flying in an airplane,, going on a roller coaster, etc.. But when statistics hit a certain level, there is a concept of shomer pesayim which plays a big roll in Halacha. That was the original heter to smoke back in the day according to Reb Moahe Feinstein ztl. (And as an aside, it is more dangerous to smoke or vape than it is to daven with a minyan, and i didn't see any letters by our leaders banning smoking.) A Rabbi has a right to decide when we reach that level and make halachic decisions.

But as I already said, even the prohibiters agree there is nothing dangerous davening with a minyan keeping all lawful guidelines. They want to make extra gezeiros in addition to those required by law. That is an opinion which 90% of the Rabbis worldwide and here in America disagree with. Let people follow their own Rabbi. That is the right thing for each person to do.

April 28, 2020, 11:48:09 AM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
Bottom line is, what did the majority of the rabbanim in the community hold? If the majority held that it is forbidden to  make any sort of outdoor minyan, then that is what all the other rabbanim need to agree with because of Achrei rabim lehatos. That is probably what that letter was referring to. Rabbonim who were disregarding the Rov (majority) and telling their congregants (or random people that heard about their lenient view and asked him) to daven with a minyan.

That is total am haratzos my friend. That is not how Halacha works. And if it would work that way, then YIW is going to have to allow minyonim, because most shuls sent out, or will send out that email. But it doesn't work that way.

May 08, 2020, 03:02:00 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
Or the Rabbanim they feel like have a better understanding of the gravity of the situation. Some of us may have felt the need to switch Rabbanim to our shailahs to based on questionable action that their usual rabbis took over the past couple of months.

If you switch your Rov when you don't agree with him, he was never really your Rov and you will never have a Rov. Al s'mol shehoo yemin...

May 08, 2020, 05:01:39 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
There is a lot to say. There is an issue of some Rabbonim being more proficient or willing to delve into metzius than others. One Rov who is a tzaddik yesod olam  when asked a technology shayla several years back about his sons friends and DVDs was told “Ich veist nisht fun yenner zachen” This may be who you ask your issur viheter or hashkafa shaalos but should not be the one who is your final word in technology.

It’s an extreme example but is extremely relevant when relying upon any Rav for a shayla that is very much dependent in metzius. Some will not be proficient in metzius but will have their “go to guy” who has a better handle on metzius to run things by. Still there have been occasions where I’ve had to move heaven and earth to demonstrate to a Rov (and their go to guy) that the metzius is different. Sometimes I’ve had to work with a younger Rav who had the time and patience to run through the literature and speak to the experts in the field and then use that to present to the Rov. One has to know the limitations of the one he is asking, but given that, not have the gaava to think he can just decide things on his own without running it by someone more experienced than him.

Then there is the issue of what is smol shehu yemin. Is it a clip of someone’s grandson throwing a 20 second question to generate a binding psak for Jewry the world over? Is it a banner on yeshiva world that proclaims “He shall not be harmed”? If that is where you cull your smol shehu yemin, you will be sorely disappointed in life.

You realize you are an apikores!? You don't need a minyan because you can't count as one of the ten anyways.

May 08, 2020, 07:05:34 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
So they’ll stick around to chap a shmooze? Very Frum

I don't know if they'll stay around or not. But if they do, it would be from a distance which is legal and safe.

They are both great men. Great Talmidei Chochomim, very humble and soft spoken. I don't think disparaging them will serve you well.

May 10, 2020, 01:51:01 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
I guess you didn't have family members, neighbors, friends,l or co-workers DIE from COVID-19 which is why you think this is all a joke.

I did have very close family members and friends who died, some who barely made it, and I also had Corona myself. I also spent weeks helping to save the lives of family members who barely made it. I do not think it's a joke at all. I do think some of the extra precautions are useless and counterproductive though.

I also believe most people who will get it, already got it. In my family and many others, some got it and some did not. We did not quarantine within the house. We shared bathrooms, ate meals together, and lived in the house normally. Still, some people did not get it, and the doctors they are seeing this with many families.

There is no reason to create panic and fear. Let people out in a safe and legal manner and we'll all be better off. Start by davening with a minyan.

May 10, 2020, 01:58:00 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
Any updates this week? Any Rav switch sides in either direction?

It's not really a matter of switching sides, but this is some of what went on:

Many Rabonim have determined through their medical advisers, Daas Torah and the trust of their mispalelim, that minyanim can now be open with specific guidelines.

There are two issues which are being heavily worked on. Number one is the law. It has to be ok'd by the Police Commissioner and the Fire Cheif. The Five Towns and Far Rockaway are both in different situations regarding this issue.

The second issue is ayva and causing a Chilul Hashem.

Every neighborhood and every situation is different. Where porch minyanim are feasible, that is the safest, most legal and usually no issue with neighbors. When they are not, then usually the next option with the least ayva is in very large backyards, possibly using neighboring yards with minyan split if feasible. Unfortunately, that option poses the biggest issue legally since any size gathering is officially prohibited on private property. A minyan spread across (frum) front lawns with proper distancing is 100% legal, but depending on the block, it can be an issue with ayva.

Some have solved this issue by contacting neighbors, sending them trays and letters explaining what was going on. This has worked well.

Last week, major lobbying was done and permission was granted for backyard minyanim with certain conditions. Unfortunately, a Rabbi from the anti-minyan crowed found out and lobbied himself. He convinced the government officials to revoke the permission. He even convinced them to send a letter to all involved Rabbis warning them not to make any backyard minyanim ot they will face major fines. They were told the police had locations and would visit on Shabbos. This is not a secret and this Rabbi is proud of what he did. There are unconfirmed reports that he later apologized to his colleagues, but the damage was done.

Right now the Governor has placed these restrictions in the hands of local officials to interpret and enforce. There is major lobying being done now in Albany to get these minyanim legalized by the Governor, and to even open shuls, or at least their parking lots, with certain restrictions.

IY"H by next Shabbos these issues will be resolved. There is a large group of Rabonim and Askonim working on this behind the scenes. It will be very sad is everyone is allowed to go to parks and beaches, but not daven with ten people on a lawn.

There is also a large group of Churches working together on these issues.

That is the update.

May 16, 2020, 11:11:05 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
You should read the rest. It helps put the first three paragraphs into context.

The agenda is clear from the first part. Once there is an agenda, everything else is irrelevant.

Look at this, especially paragraph 10

And this

There's a lot more out there too....

May 17, 2020, 11:51:09 AM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Rabbonim Ban All Minyanim Due To COVID-19 (Split Topic)
please name 1 yeshiva in NY or NJ that is legally open....
I will let you do your own homework. I'll give you a little help though. Patterson has been open since right after Pesach. They actually never closed. Safely and legally. The rest you can find out. I'm not here to give names and open cans of worms.

May 19, 2020, 11:32:36 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
Anyone know who mehadrin of 5t is? 550 and chimichurri switched to them.

I would advise you to speak to someone who is involved in local lashes. Maybe your Rov if he is part of the Vaad of the Fuve Towns.

This change in supervision is a step down, not a step up. First if all, they are much less experienced in the field of Kashrus and might not know what to look out for. In additon, the Vaad is part of the AKO network. Therefore they have access to, and network with other professionals and attend meetings about the latest on the kashmir industry.  This Mehadrin supervisor does not.

According to the Rabbi I spoke to, Mehadrin are amateurs in the field and also have a much lower standard than the Vaad. There are mashgichim who the Vaad does not accept, and Mehadrin does.

Be careful, there is a reason why they are switching, and it is not to upgrade their standards.

July 05, 2020, 02:27:05 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
This new 'Hashgacha' will not help elevate the standard or provide a more Machmir option.

Do you use R' Forst's list btw?

I wish the "Rabbi First list" would actually provide a list instead if the format they use now via email. It would be a lot more helpful that way.

What is ironic is that the list is mainly put together by Rabbi Eisen who works for tha Vaad. He has his own Kashrus organization called Kehila Kashrus in Flatbush where he establishes and decides the standard he is comfortable with. The Rabbi Forst list is basically a list of local establishments which meet the Kehila Kashrus standards.

Here Rabbi Eisen is just a worker and must abide by the (lower) standard of the Vaad which is grandfathered in. This standard does not satisfy many who now live in town, including many of the newer younger Aguda style Rabonim. Many attempts have been made, led by Rabbi Forst, and recently joined by many other Rabbis and lay leaders to higher and improve the current Vaad policies. But there was strong resistance from the left.

It would be so nice to have a new mehudar competing hoshgocho in town. Unfortunately this new hashgocha is not going to help improve the situation at all.

July 08, 2020, 06:09:26 AM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread Anybody have a good recommendation for someone reasonable and professional tom plant bushes around property?
March 15, 2021, 09:59:50 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread It doesn't really matter to the consumer why they switched supervisions.

When the Vaad first put out the letters not to eat by these establishments, it was purely political. The new certifier kept all the same mashgichim and at that point did not even up the standards yet. When these mashgichim worked for the Vaad, they were fine. But now that they are working for Mehadrin, they became no good.

The bases for this lawsuit seems to be because the Vaad told people not to eat there for personal gain, not because the standard of kashrus was any lower. This is clear and provable.

The Rabonim of the new certification also happen to be huge talmidei chochomim. They know what they are doing.

Competition is a good thing. It helps keep everyone on their toes. Ask Rabbi Eisen. He was the one who started Kehila Kashrus to compete with the Vaad of Flatbush. When he did it, it was o.k..

And btw, other establishments also wanted to switch to competing hashgochos in the past, but they were threatened by the Vaad.

The Vaad is control hungry. And money hungry. There also happens to be a lot of improvements they need to make.

May 26, 2021, 11:05:21 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
so its not that simple... @sammyp

once the Mashgiach left the organization he was working for and joined a new one under a new rabbinical Auth. it doesn't make him a bad Mashgiach... rather the heigherarc that he calls to is not the same and there for in this case would be not as good. The Vaad put in place certain things that the mashgiach needs to follow. Even if he continues to do all the same things that he was doing under the previous org. he still doesn't have the same rep of the previous org.

The Vaads been in town for a very long time and helped us with some very stinky and slimy businesses. having more than one option is not always the best.

Brooklyn is  a whole different world. Cant compare, honestly don't even think there was ever one sole Hashgacha in bk in the past 25yrs
There was only one Hashgacha in Flatbush until Rabbi Risen opened a competing one.

The new Mehadrin has the same standards as the Vaad with a few enhancements in place. They are great Rabbis who consult with very experienced Kashrus people. Being that they use they same mashgichim, there is no reason to believe their Kashrus is any less reliable.

The Vaads slandering of them was not a religious issue. It was purely political. That is why this case has legal standing.

In fact, some Rabbis who signed the letter told visiting guests they can eat from Mehadrim certified  establishments since they don't live here and they do not owe loyalty to the Vaad.

I understand feeling a loyalty towards the Vàad. There is nothing wrong with that. But at the same time, there is no reason to slander anyone else.

Additionally, there are many different types of people living in town now. Different people have different priorities and different standards in Kashrus. For example, some Rabbis will not allow any certification on a non Jewish owned establishment, or a restaurant owned and operated by an owner who does not observe Shabbos. There are different hidurim in what can be considered bug-free, or which shechita follows different atringabcies.

Why can't there be a Hashgacha in town who caters to those people. They want to be able to know which places meet their standards. There should be nothing wrong with that. Especially after they worked with the Vaad trying to make a "Vaad Mehadrin" certification under the existing Vaad.(The Vaad will not even allow supermarkets to label which shechita the beef and poultry is. They feel if it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for everybody. In reality, people have preferances, which is why in Brooklyn, Monsey, Lakewood and almost everywhere else, the shechita is labeled on package.) They only opened a new Hashgacha after all negotiations failed.

May 27, 2021, 08:34:04 AM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread
In halacha, there is a concept of sticking with the hechsher of the city, and not bringing in another.  I am not sure how that plays out in areas with several kehillas, each with their own standards, but I do know that it is not so simple to bring in a new hashgacha to an area that already has one, or to rely on it once it comes in - especially if the standards are essentially the same.

There is no basis in Halacha at all to not allow a second hashgacha in town. In fact, there are already places with other hashgachos already. But their standards are lower and the Vadd did not view them as a threat.

It would be more of a halachic issue to open a shul in the territory of another shul. And that nobody cares about!! The same we we need different schools and different schools with different hashkofos, we can also have different Vaad's and their hashgochos. There is no basis in Halacha prohibiting that.

The current Vaad is actually a merger of two different Vaadim years ago. The same way there was nothing wrong then when the Vaad originally opened up, certainly now as the area has grown we can have multiple hashgochos.

Everyone would understand that if Belz would open a kehila nearby, they would have their own hashgocho with their own standards. Most people here would not even want them to utilize the current Vaad by upgrading their standard to a Chsideshe hashgacha. In our circles it's the same way. There are different standards and different hashkafos.

I am not saying I agree with the new Mehadrin's standards. But the Vaad has no halachic basis to tell people not to patronize these establishments.

May 27, 2021, 03:58:36 PM
Re: 5 Towns/Rockaway Master Thread

This "upgrade" was promised almost a year ago.

It was put in place in order to shut down the Rabbi Forst list.

It's a pretty useless upgrade. It's very generic and doesn't include any of the hidurim of an upgraded kashrus. It does not include many of the "lists" hidurim.

The only thing this "upgrade" does is prevent the people from the "list" from double checking on the Vaad's establishments. (They have found real overlooked issues quite a few times when the Vaad admitted they were issues and needed to fix.)

A real improvement would to bring an outside agency to spot-check local establishments.

Just to point out one thing, even if this would be an improvement, this only happened as a direct result of Mehadrin opening up! Competition is a good thing!!

May 30, 2021, 09:42:36 AM