Lashon Harah L'toeles

[Definitions]

You're allowed to hit somebody to save someone else from getting hit?

[imayid2]

You're allowed to hit somebody to save someone else from getting hit?

Yes

[imayid2]

Save Levi. Always save Levi.

The סמ״ע writes that in this case Ruvain would be prohibited from saving Levi. The C”C says that it follows that if the tnai of not having the wrong intentions while reciting the information cannot be met, the L’H would not be able to be said, despite its toeles.

However, the Taz disagrees with the Sma, and asserts the C’C he’d permit the L”H as well. Ultimately the C”C is dubious that the mesaper would be able to fulfill the tnai of not exaggerating, so he rules the L”H may not be said.

This answers 40% of this question:

What is the halacha when these two things clash with each other? Meaning, that the seven conditions of toeles are not met, but people are going to lose money if you don't tell?

As pointed out above the assumption that 7 tnaim are needed was in error, in truth there are only five. And for the two discussed in this post (having the wrong intentions and not exaggerating) the C”C rules that if they cannot be met it cannot be said, despite the loss that will occur to the victim.

[imayid2]

As for the other 3 tnaim, they are dictated by the C'C for a case where someone stands to lose money, so it's explicit that if they are not met you would not be able to say even though the guy would fall victim.

Its not very complicated to meet the other tnaim,
1) you need to be careful to weigh what the fellow did to be sure it was truly the wrong thing.
2) there is no other way to save the victim.
3) the mekabel will not act on the information more than allowed.

[yuneeq]

The source that you are not allowed to say something that is negative or can damage another person (either one, does not need to by both) is clearly written multiple times in the Chofetz Chaim. Again, I'm not saying that you cannot say when it will hurt someone else. I'm just trying to find a source that clarifies exactly what the guidelines are with we need to reconcile Lashon Harah with Lo Saamod.

But "Toeles" is surely NOT the name of that heter. Toeles needs 7 checkboxes. In almost all cases in which the word "Toeles" is being used, many of those criteria were not met. So perhaps the name is "Lo Saamod," but again, I (being an am ha'aretz) don't know the guidelines of how that overrides Lashon Harah, and I'm asking for them here.

You’re conflating due diligence with badmouthing someone, but that is incorrect. DD can be as simple as saying “vacancy rates are really high in this neighborhood, be careful investing there”.

[imayid2]

You’re conflating due diligence with badmouthing someone, but that is incorrect. DD can be as simple as saying “vacancy rates are really high in this neighborhood, be careful investing there”.

Negative information about a business or the like that can potentially have a damaging effect on the business is technically L’H as needs to be ltoeles and meet some other thresholds AFAIK. In your specific example, as far as I can tell it does in fact meet the tnaim assuming the intention is pure and the information isn’t exaggerated. Also, the source of the information should be provided.

[liosac]

https://vinnews.com/2023/07/19/ponzi-schemer-who-got-trump-clemency-charged-in-new-fraud/

https://vinnews.com/2019/03/27/lashon-harah-policy/

Authors note:

Based upon an article written previously about Lashon HaRah and the media, and after consultation with leading Poskim, the VINnews policy about posting controversial articles is as follows:

DANGER TO THE COMMUNITY

It is VIN’s halachic position that dangers to the community should be reported upon by the Jewish media.  This is whether the danger is:

a charlatan who purposefully steals money from others
a predator
a dangerous practice that undermines the public health or well-being.
Generally speaking, the term “alleged” will be employed.

NOT NECESSARILY TRUE

The reader should note that just because it appears on VINNEWS, does not necessarily mean that the person is guilty – per se.  It is just that it has risen to the level of something to be concerned about.  VINNEWS does not have the resources to fully investigate issues to the level that is necessary to make a determination of guilt or innocence.

 L’MAAN YISHME’U V’YEAR’U

There is another second and indirect element as well.  As a general rule, both those who engage in fraud, as well as predators, as well as those who undermine the public welfare, will offend repeatedly if there are no consequences and repercussions to what they have done.  In order to prevent this, there is an element of l’maan yishme’u v’yera’u to reporting upon it.

[YitzyS]

https://rebgershonribner.com/when-snitching-is-consistent-with-loyal-friendship