Author Topic: Mezuzah Fraud  (Read 6133 times)

Offline ushdadude

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 4011
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Long Island
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2019, 12:29:06 PM »
#ButTheyAreYidden
so was that butcher in monsey
If you see something that is 50% off but don't need it, walk away and save yourself 100%

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1093
  • Total likes: 717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2019, 12:39:07 PM »
Many other sofrim have reviewed these pictures and (taking into account the limitations of the pictures) said that many of those he said are passul, are actually kosher (bedieved).

Having said that, when you pay $30 for a mezzuzah, you are going to get, at the very best, a questionable product.

Oh come on. Even if ALL were kosher, but only b'dieved, it's still awful. When I'm buying a mezuzah, I'm looking for a kosher mezuzah l'chatchilah. Don't tell me it's my fault for only spending $30. If $30 is not enough to get a kosher mezuzah, don't sell mezuzahs for $30. How is a SOFER selling a mezuzah that is not 100% kosher l'chatchilah not theft?
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 987
  • Total likes: 102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Serve Kosher
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Ritz Carlton Gold, *G, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Total Rewards Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, DDF Platinum Elite, American Express Platinum
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2019, 12:47:27 PM »
Oh come on. Even if ALL were kosher, but only b'dieved, it's still awful. When I'm buying a mezuzah, I'm looking for a kosher mezuzah l'chatchilah. Don't tell me it's my fault for only spending $30. If $30 is not enough to get a kosher mezuzah, don't sell mezuzahs for $30. How is a SOFER selling a mezuzah that is not 100% kosher l'chatchilah not theft?
Although I am hesitant to bash mochrim in general, this is a pretty valid point.
"Some people don't just have issues- they have a whole year's subscription" -@etech0

Online zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 480
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2019, 12:52:35 PM »
Oh come on. Even if ALL were kosher, but only b'dieved, it's still awful. When I'm buying a mezuzah, I'm looking for a kosher mezuzah l'chatchilah. Don't tell me it's my fault for only spending $30. If $30 is not enough to get a kosher mezuzah, don't sell mezuzahs for $30. How is a SOFER selling a mezuzah that is not 100% kosher l'chatchilah not theft?

If the guy told you it is kosher l'chatchila then he stole from you, but when people ask for the cheapest possible mezzuzah, then it is going to be b'dieved (and anyone who didn't know that before now was burying their own head in the sand). The fact that one sofer who checked them said they are passul does not mean that the one who sold them agrees.

Again, I agree that passul mezzuzas being sold and the ones who sell them should answer for their actions, but this video went to far to the other extreme by using a sofer that is more machmir.

I'm just calling for a little bit of nuance.

Offline S209

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2016
  • Posts: 987
  • Total likes: 102
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Serve Kosher
  • Location: Lakewood, NJ
  • Programs: Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, Ritz Carlton Gold, *G, Hyatt Explorist, Hertz PC, National EE, Rock Royalty Wild Card, Wyndham Diamond, MLife Gold, Total Rewards Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Uber VIP, IHG Platinum Elite, DDF Platinum Elite, American Express Platinum
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2019, 01:03:08 PM »
If the guy told you it is kosher l'chatchila then he stole from you, but when people ask for the cheapest possible mezzuzah, then it is going to be b'dieved (and anyone who didn't know that before now was burying their own head in the sand). The fact that one sofer who checked them said they are passul does not mean that the one who sold them agrees.

Again, I agree that passul mezzuzas being sold and the ones who sell them should answer for their actions, but this video went to far to the other extreme by using a sofer that is more machmir.

I'm just calling for a little bit of nuance.
Also a valid point! Bravo!
"Some people don't just have issues- they have a whole year's subscription" -@etech0

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1093
  • Total likes: 717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2019, 01:10:10 PM »
If the guy told you it is kosher l'chatchila then he stole from you, but when people ask for the cheapest possible mezzuzah, then it is going to be b'dieved (and anyone who didn't know that before now was burying their own head in the sand). The fact that one sofer who checked them said they are passul does not mean that the one who sold them agrees.

Again, I agree that passul mezzuzas being sold and the ones who sell them should answer for their actions, but this video went to far to the other extreme by using a sofer that is more machmir.

I'm just calling for a little bit of nuance.
Firstly he says a second sofer checked them.

See upthread - I 100% was expecting a kosher mezuzah l'chatchilah. I even discussed it with the salesman (who is a sofer) and he made no mention that they would not be 100% kosher.

If you tell me it costs $35, that's what I think it should cost. Don't accuse people of burying their heads in the sand when you're not telling people that if you only spend $35 the mezuzah is not going to be kosher l'chatchila.

Machon Stam charges $42 for their cheapest mezuzahs. (according to their website) They were all kosher, even according to this extremely machmir sofer.

I'm all for nuance. But this is theft. Plain and simple.

ETA: apparently he is not willing to have these mezuzahs checked by independent sofrim. But I stand by claim that they all selling these mezuzahs under false pretenses based on personal experience.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:33:53 PM by Yehuda57 »
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Online yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 598
  • Total likes: 36
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2019, 01:31:05 PM »
Firstly he says a second sofer checked them.

See upthread - I 100% was expecting a kosher mezuzah l'chatchilah. I even discussed it with the salesman (who is a sofer) and he made no mention that they would not be 100% kosher.

If you tell me it costs $35, that's what I think it should cost. Don't accuse people of burying their heads in the sand when you're not telling people that if you only spend $35 the mezuzah is not going to be kosher l'chatchila.

Machon Stam charges $42 for their cheapest mezuzahs. (according to their website) They were all kosher, even according to this extremely machmir sofer.

I'm all for nuance. But this is theft. Plain and simple.
The mocher should tell buyers whether it is lechatchila or bdieved, but buyers should ask if he doesn't.

Offline ushdadude

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 4011
  • Total likes: 68
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Long Island
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2019, 01:37:21 PM »
what's more concerning to me is that a lot of these cheaper mezuzos have eraser marks. a mezuza has to b written in order. there is no way to know if a mistake was corrected as it was written (kosher) or if it was noticed later and corrected (pasul)
If you see something that is 50% off but don't need it, walk away and save yourself 100%

Online zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 480
  • Total likes: 61
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2019, 01:40:11 PM »
Firstly he says a second sofer checked them.

ETA: apparently he is not willing to have these mezuzahs checked by independent sofrim.

And many sofrim have questioned those sofrim based on the pictures.

I agree with you for the most part.

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2670
  • Total likes: 101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2019, 02:21:25 PM »
And many sofrim have questioned those sofrim based on the pictures.

I agree with you for the most part.
No self respecting sofer would give a real opinion based on a low quality picture like what you can pull from the video.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 2943
  • Total likes: 26
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2019, 02:56:10 PM »
apparently the 'psulim' he mentions might be so according to AR but not necessarily  according to all poskim.

but the mocher should not have agreed to sell to 'anash' personal use...

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2670
  • Total likes: 101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2019, 03:37:19 PM »
apparently the 'psulim' he mentions might be so according to AR but not necessarily  according to all poskim.

but the mocher should not have agreed to sell to 'anash' personal use...
Where are you getting your apparently? Which of the psulim?

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1093
  • Total likes: 717
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2019, 03:51:20 PM »
Where are you getting your apparently? Which of the psulim?

Lubavitch WhatsApp today is using up all of the available bandwidth in the world on voice notes.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline bestwatchman

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Posts: 222
  • Total likes: 2
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 03:53:53 PM »
Lubavitch WhatsApp today is using up all of the available bandwidth in the world on voice notes.
and don't forget the video itself. 60mb. Being forqarded on every group... Wish there was a way to see how many times a whatsapp video was viewed.

Offline skyguy918

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2670
  • Total likes: 101
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Queens, NY
Re: Mezuzah Fraud
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2019, 04:14:37 PM »
Lubavitch WhatsApp today is using up all of the available bandwidth in the world on voice notes.
Nu, so someone can probably share what it is that apparently the velt is arguing with the video on specifically.