Author Topic: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise  (Read 1389 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 01:29:17 PM »
For where we were going, the only shayla was for Lubavitchers.

R' Kotler gave a shiur and printed a booklet on the polar zmanim issue and the kula he was going to use for the fast based on the various dayos, but I noted to the group that it was all based on there not being a sunset, which there was for our entire trip.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2019, 01:31:30 PM »
For where we were going, the only shayla was for Lubavitchers.


Especially since the Rebbe is a know "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar.  ;)
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2019, 01:36:04 PM »
Especially since the Rebbe is a know "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar.  ;)
The Rebbe's shita was seemingly the Ben Ish Chai or the Moadim U’Zmanim.

However the main shayla I had for this trip was a machlokes among Chabad Rabonim about the Alter Rebbe's shita with regards to Shika Haniris vs Shkia Amitis.
In the end we diverted for fuel and never wound up far enough south where we would have a Shika Haniris and not a Shkia Amitis, so it was a moot point.
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2019, 01:45:38 PM »
The Rebbe's shita was seemingly the Ben Ish Chai or the Moadim U’Zmanim.

However the main shayla I had for this trip was a machlokes among Chabad Rabonim about the Alter Rebbe's shita with regards to Shika Haniris vs Shkia Amitis.
In the end we diverted for fuel and never wound up far enough south where we would have a Shika Haniris and not a Shkia Amitis, so it was a moot point.
I've been a Zmanim enthusiast for many years now and was well aware of the שקיעה אמיתית concept but it seems like it's only recently that it's becoming mainstream to use it for calculating regular Zmanim such as סוף זמן קריאת שמע and פלג המנחה Lechumra.
I'm fascinated by how it changes during the year.
According to my research the day is extended by anywhere between 7.8 and 9.2 minutes.
I'd be interested in reading more about it.

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2019, 01:50:16 PM »
I've been a Zmanim enthusiast for many years now and was well aware of the שקיעה אמיתית concept but it seems like it's only recently that it's becoming mainstream to use it for calculating regular Zmanim such as סוף זמן קריאת שמע and פלג המנחה Lechumra.
I'm fascinated by how it changes during the year.
According to my research the day is extended by anywhere between 7.8 and 9.2 minutes.
I'd be interested in reading more about it.
The difference between Shkia Haniris and Shkia Amitis is much greater in polar regions. The zmanim varied by as much as 30 minutes IIRC.

For our purposes, the consensus from nearly everyone is that Shabbos starts at Shkia and ends at Alos on Sunday. However, what if you only have Shkia Haniris and not Shkia Amitis? For our dates this could have happened between the latitudes of 65.17 and 66.
Do you start Shabbos at Shkia Haniris? When do you switch to a Polar Model of zmanim such as the Ben Ish Chai? How does Chabad hold for the Polar zmanim?

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Offline MeirS

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2019, 01:56:26 PM »


The difference between Shkia Haniris and Shkia Amitis is much greater in polar regions. The zmanim varied by as much as 30 minutes IIRC.
Good point. Obviously t's by degrees and would change by location. My research was done for 11213.
For our purposes, the consensus from nearly everyone is that Shabbos starts at Shkia and ends at Alos on Sunday. However, what if you only have Shkia Haniris and not Shkia Amitis? For our dates this could have happened between the latitudes of 65.17 and 66.
Do you start Shabbos at Shkia Haniris? When do you switch to a Polar Model of zmanim such as the Ben Ish Chai? How does Chabad hold for the Polar zmanim?
That's an interesting one. Seems like most (although certainly not all) Chabad Rabonim go L'Chumra for both so they probably told you to keep Shabbos from Shkia Hanireis until Alos as well as by polar Zmanim if that's an option. (If that even makes sense. I'm not so well versed in polar Zmanim.)

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2019, 01:58:10 PM »
Good point. Obviously t's by degrees and would change by location. My research was done for 11213.That's an interesting one. Seems like most (although certainly not all) Chabad Rabonim go L'Chumra for both so they probably told you to keep Shabbos from Shkia Hanireis until Alos as well as by polar Zmanim if that's an option. (If that even makes sense. I'm not so well versed in polar Zmanim.)
Mostly correct and that was the general consensus as compiled by @dirah and the psak I got from my Rov. But some Rabbonim abstained or said not to go based on the chumra possibly being keeping polar zmanim lchumra.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2019, 02:02:06 PM »
It's interesting that most complications in planning in flight Zmanim are only about figuring out your precise latitude and longitude but once you have that, finding the Zmanim are (relatively) easy.
In your case, finding the exact location was simple, figuring the Zmanim for that location was the complicated part.

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2019, 02:04:53 PM »
It's interesting that most complications in planning in flight Zmanim are only about figuring out your precise latitude and longitude but once you have that, finding the Zmanim are (relatively) easy.
In your case, finding the exact location was simple, figuring the Zmanim for that location was the complicated part.
When we were planning the trip we were under the impression there would be no WiFi, would make things complicated. With WiFi my job was a lot easier.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2019, 02:08:06 PM »
The story of the Alter Rebbe stopping the boat came up in regards to a shayla I asked about Kiddush Levana and I spoke about it during our Shabbos meal as a potential reason for the diversion which ensured we wouldn't make it to an area where there would be a question in what the Alter Rebbe might pasken.

@Something Fishy then informed me if I told the story one more time I would be fed to the penguins.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 02:11:07 PM by Dan »
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2019, 02:09:02 PM »


For our purposes, the consensus from nearly everyone is that Shabbos starts at Shkia and ends at Alos on Sunday.

Why not till Chatzos according to the AR if the sun doesn't go much below the horizon?

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2019, 02:09:43 PM »
The story of the Alter Rebbe stopping the boat came up in regards to a shayla I asked about Kiddush Levana and I spoke about it as a potential reason for the diversion which ensured we wouldn't make it to an area where there would be a question in what the Alter Rebbe might pasken.

@Something Fishy then informed me if I told the story one more time I would be fed to the penguins.

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2019, 02:10:40 PM »

Why not till Chatzos according to the AR if the sun doesn't go much below the horizon?
Where we were, Chatzos=Alos=Misheyakir
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Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 02:13:54 PM »
The story of the Alter Rebbe stopping the boat came up in regards to a shayla I asked about Kiddush Levana and I spoke about it during our Shabbos meal as a potential reason for the diversion which ensured we wouldn't make it to an area where there would be a question in what the Alter Rebbe might pasken.

@Something Fishy then informed me if I told the story one more time I would be fed to the penguins.

I am hereby resigning my post as mod.

Offline MeirS

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2019, 02:15:32 PM »
I am hereby resigning my post as mod.
@Dan can no longer threaten to feed you to the penguins.