Author Topic: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise  (Read 11096 times)

Offline Matovu

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Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« on: January 05, 2019, 08:54:52 PM »
So what months is best time for Antarctica, December? Jan/Feb? what are your thoughts on last minute half prices buying the cruise tickets in Ushuaia last minute? I'm googling it is a big hit or miss and don't mind to sit around Ushuaia for a few days to save $5000.

And after reading some reports from SF I think Falkland Islands is not to be missed when choosing a cruise.

From the Moment it seems that they made sure to go at a time that they had a night of about 20 minutes. Some months there's no night at all making it more complicated halachacally...
Or did Innot read it correctly?

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 09:00:00 PM »
From the Moment it seems that they made sure to go at a time that they had a night of about 20 minutes. Some months there's no night at all making it more complicated halachacally...
Or did Innot read it correctly?

There was no night at all.

The 20 minute comment was that regarding sunset, all shitos came to within around 20 minutes of each other so it was easy to be machmir.
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Offline Matovu

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2019, 09:02:19 PM »
There was no night at all.

The 20 minute comment was that regarding sunset, all shitos came to within around 20 minutes of each other so it was easy to be machmir.

When you have time, can you please expand on this ?

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2019, 11:20:09 PM »
I can write a book on the research I did into the sunset issues.
@dirah was a massive help sorting things out. Would be great if he can share more.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 01:52:32 AM »
In the article SF says he's planning to do it again.

Offline Matovu

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 02:00:45 AM »
I can write a book on the research I did into the sunset issues.
@dirah was a massive help sorting things out. Would be great if he can share more.

Was all this discussed publically in the private threads for this trip?

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 02:01:30 AM »
Nope.
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Offline Matovu

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 02:02:55 AM »
Nope.

One shita written in the article.
6 years weekday, and 1 whole year shabbos...
So interesting.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2019, 02:08:23 AM »


I can write a book on the research I did into the sunset issues.

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2019, 04:10:19 AM »
Same shaala when traveling to HKG on the polar route and night doesn't fall, Summer, or the sun doesn't rise, winter, and you arrive two days later...

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 05:08:13 AM »
One shita written in the article.
6 years weekday, and 1 whole year shabbos...
So interesting.

That's the Minchas Elezar's shita.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 08:06:41 AM »
One shita written in the article.
6 years weekday, and 1 whole year shabbos...
So interesting.
its not that weird when you look at the explanation.
day and night depends on sunrise and sunset, so if that only happens once a year, then a year = a day.
so yes, it'll take 7 years for a week.

Offline cmey

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2019, 08:52:16 AM »
its not that weird when you look at the explanation.
day and night depends on sunrise and sunset, so if that only happens once a year, then a year = a day.
so yes, it'll take 7 years for a week.

Does that really only happen once a year all around the area near the pole, or does the sun make several passes skimming  below and above the horizon around the equinox in those areas away from the exact pole?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 08:56:28 AM by cmey »

Offline Zevi16

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2019, 12:04:48 PM »
If anyone is really interested, pm me and Iíll ask a family member for a psak. He has sforim on it and he travels the world too so he knows every zman and shita for every longitude and latitude

Offline Matovu

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 12:27:53 PM »
If anyone is really interested, pm me and Iíll ask a family member for a psak. He has sforim on it and he travels the world too so he knows every zman and shita for every longitude and latitude

Lot's of us, me included are interested in reading up on this fascinating halachic discussion.

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 01:29:17 PM »
For where we were going, the only shayla was for Lubavitchers.

R' Kotler gave a shiur and printed a booklet on the polar zmanim issue and the kula he was going to use for the fast based on the various dayos, but I noted to the group that it was all based on there not being a sunset, which there was for our entire trip.
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2019, 01:31:30 PM »
For where we were going, the only shayla was for Lubavitchers.


Especially since the Rebbe is a know "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar.  ;)
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2019, 01:36:04 PM »
Especially since the Rebbe is a know "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar.  ;)
The Rebbe's shita was seemingly the Ben Ish Chai or the Moadim UíZmanim.

However the main shayla I had for this trip was a machlokes among Chabad Rabonim about the Alter Rebbe's shita with regards to Shika Haniris vs Shkia Amitis.
In the end we diverted for fuel and never wound up far enough south where we would have a Shika Haniris and not a Shkia Amitis, so it was a moot point.
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Offline MeirS

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2019, 01:45:38 PM »
The Rebbe's shita was seemingly the Ben Ish Chai or the Moadim UíZmanim.

However the main shayla I had for this trip was a machlokes among Chabad Rabonim about the Alter Rebbe's shita with regards to Shika Haniris vs Shkia Amitis.
In the end we diverted for fuel and never wound up far enough south where we would have a Shika Haniris and not a Shkia Amitis, so it was a moot point.
I've been a Zmanim enthusiast for many years now and was well aware of the שקיעה אמיתית concept but it seems like it's only recently that it's becoming mainstream to use it for calculating regular Zmanim such as סוף זמן קריאת שמע and פלג המנחה Lechumra.
I'm fascinated by how it changes during the year.
According to my research the day is extended by anywhere between 7.8 and 9.2 minutes.
I'd be interested in reading more about it.

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2019, 01:50:16 PM »
I've been a Zmanim enthusiast for many years now and was well aware of the שקיעה אמיתית concept but it seems like it's only recently that it's becoming mainstream to use it for calculating regular Zmanim such as סוף זמן קריאת שמע and פלג המנחה Lechumra.
I'm fascinated by how it changes during the year.
According to my research the day is extended by anywhere between 7.8 and 9.2 minutes.
I'd be interested in reading more about it.
The difference between Shkia Haniris and Shkia Amitis is much greater in polar regions. The zmanim varied by as much as 30 minutes IIRC.

For our purposes, the consensus from nearly everyone is that Shabbos starts at Shkia and ends at Alos on Sunday. However, what if you only have Shkia Haniris and not Shkia Amitis? For our dates this could have happened between the latitudes of 65.17 and 66.
Do you start Shabbos at Shkia Haniris? When do you switch to a Polar Model of zmanim such as the Ben Ish Chai? How does Chabad hold for the Polar zmanim?

Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.