Author Topic: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise  (Read 7314 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2019, 08:48:12 PM »
Could you please move it to zmanim thread, I get excited every time I see a new post only to find some zmanim talk ???. @Something Fishy pass it on to current mod thanks.

ANd here I see a post and get disappointed when it is something about penguins...
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Blazer

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2019, 10:32:04 PM »

Offline dirah

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2019, 10:47:45 PM »
OK, it looks like I have been officially pulled out of DDF retirement :)
I just sent Dan an essay which lays out most of the issues. I am just making a couple of brief comments here on some of the posts above:
Does that really only happen once a year all around the area near the pole, or does the sun make several passes skimming  below and above the horizon around the equinox in those areas away from the exact pole?
At the exact Poles, it happens once a year only.
For where we were going, the only shayla was for Lubavitchers.
The bulk of the issues only affected Lubavitchers. But the issue of the absence of Tzeis would have affected everyone.
Especially since the Rebbe is a known "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar.  ;)
It is true the Rebbe was a known "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar, but on this point, he clearly disagreed. See Igros Kodesh Volume 2 page 94, Toras Menachem 5746 Vol 2 page 847.
I've been a Zmanim enthusiast for many years now and was well aware of the שקיעה אמיתית concept but it seems like it's only recently that it's becoming mainstream to use it for calculating regular Zmanim such as סוף זמן קריאת שמע and פלג המנחה Lechumra.
It has become more mainstream ever since Chabad.org has adopted it as their default option. But it is not the consensus, and ppl should consult their Rav, or adopt the stringencies of both opinions (which is generally not such a big deal, as the difference is minor unless you are near the Poles).
That's an interesting one. Seems like most (although certainly not all) Chabad Rabonim go L'Chumra for both so they probably told you to keep Shabbos from Shkia Hanireis until Alos as well as by polar Zmanim if that's an option. (If that even makes sense. I'm not so well versed in polar Zmanim.)
But that would lead to problems where the two models are mutually exclusive. For example, Licht Bentchen would be close to midnight according to Standard Zmanim, but before 6pm true solar time according to the Ben Ish Chaiís Polar model. This leads to a conundrum: If you light before 6pm, this will be way too early if the Zmanim do in fact follow the Standard Zmanim. If you light shortly before midnight, this will be way too late if the Zmanim do in fact follow the Polar Zmanim model of the Ben Ish Chai.
Same shaala when traveling to HKG on the polar route and night doesn't fall, Summer, or the sun doesn't rise, winter, and you arrive two days later...
Indeed, transpolar flights are a major issue and many people donít even realise. I am BEH working on an updated write-up about this.

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2019, 10:51:32 PM »
OK, it looks like I have been officially pulled out of DDF retirement :)
We missed you!

In the good news department, it's been a long time since I was last served Cholov Stam or a Hamotzi roll on a flight  ;D
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline LoLo

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2019, 10:53:01 PM »
Could you please move it to zmanim thread?
+1

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2019, 10:56:01 PM »
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline MeirS

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Re: Live Antarctica Trip Report
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2019, 10:56:20 PM »
OK, it looks like I have been officially pulled out of DDF retirement :)
I just sent Dan an essay which lays out most of the issues. I am just making a couple of brief comments here on some of the posts above:At the exact Poles, it happens once a year only.The bulk of the issues only affected Lubavitchers. But the issue of the absence of Tzeis would have affected everyone. It is true the Rebbe was a known "fan" of the Minchas Eluzar, but on this point, he clearly disagreed. See Igros Kodesh Volume 2 page 94, Toras Menachem 5746 Vol 2 page 847.It has become more mainstream ever since Chabad.org has adopted it as their default option. But it is not the consensus, and ppl should consult their Rav, or adopt the stringencies of both opinions (which is generally not such a big deal, as the difference is minor unless you are near the Poles).But that would lead to problems where the two models are mutually exclusive. For example, Licht Bentchen would be close to midnight according to Standard Zmanim, but before 6pm true solar time according to the Ben Ish Chaiís Polar model. This leads to a conundrum: If you light before 6pm, this will be way too early if the Zmanim do in fact follow the Standard Zmanim. If you light shortly before midnight, this will be way too late if the Zmanim do in fact follow the Polar Zmanim model of the Ben Ish Chai. Indeed, transpolar flights are a major issue and many people donít even realise. I am BEH working on an updated write-up about this.
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

Offline dirah

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2019, 11:10:24 PM »
We missed you!

In the good news department, it's been a long time since I was last served Cholov Stam or a Hamotzi roll on a flight  ;D
;D

Offline chff

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2019, 12:56:27 PM »
OK, it looks like I have been officially pulled out of DDF retirement :)
I just sent Dan an essay which lays out most of the issues.

Thanks for your help! - will a copy of this essay be posted?

Offline Dan

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Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Matovu

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2019, 02:05:04 PM »
Thanks so much for the Main Site post.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2019, 02:19:48 PM »
The story of the Alter Rebbe stopping the boat came up in regards to a shayla I asked about Kiddush Levana and I spoke about it during our Shabbos meal as a potential reason for the diversion which ensured we wouldn't make it to an area where there would be a question in what the Alter Rebbe might pasken.

@Something Fishy then informed me if I told the story one more time I would be fed to the penguins.
If you look in the Rebbe's conversation with the chief rabbis regarding polar zmanim (ben ish chai was brought up there), The Rebbe says something very similar, that בהשגחה פרטית most jews don't end up in this shaila

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2019, 02:37:57 PM »
If you look in the Rebbe's conversation with the chief rabbis regarding polar zmanim (ben ish chai was brought up there), The Rebbe says something very similar, that בהשגחה פרטית most jews don't end up in this shaila
Link?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2019, 02:49:29 PM »
Link?
it's the same sicha from 5746. I can't seem to find it online (the hebrewbooks pdf cuts short on that volume)

ETA: here
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 03:26:01 PM by gozalim »

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2019, 03:30:18 PM »
it's the same sicha from 5746. I can't seem to find it online (the hebrewbooks pdf cuts short on that volume)

ETA: here
Where did you find that? Have the next page?

Seems like the Rebbe was referring to where people live, though we can apply that to where we wound up as well :)
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Offline gozalim

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2019, 03:31:49 PM »
from otzar hachocma

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2019, 03:34:06 PM »
Here is the letter from the Rebbe's Igros that the DDMS article references
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Offline chff

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Offline gozalim

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2019, 03:47:50 PM »
Have the next page?
attached
Quote
Seems like the Rebbe was referring to where people live, though we can apply that to where we wound up as well :)
indeed that was my intention

Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2019, 03:56:43 PM »
indeed that was my intention
Yup, very cool. Thanks for sharing.
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