Author Topic: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise  (Read 33121 times)

Offline jose34

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2019, 04:33:55 PM »

Between these sources, one will see addressed in regards to keeping shabbos:
(1) The preliminary question of whether the halakhic “day” requires a sunrise & sunset or a 24 hours (just about) period constitutes a day – this is largely based on proofs from Tanach, Gemaras, Midrashim (significantly a Pirkei D’Rav Elazar),
(2) Assuming a sunrise & sunset is required, is shabbos really every seven years!?!?,
(3) Assuming sunset & sunrise is not required to constitute a halakhic day (either on a d’orysa, or at least d’raban level [meaning, perhaps Shabbos on a d’orysa level is every seven years but to not “forget Shabbos” it should be kept on a rabbinic level every seven days – a similar, though not exact notion is noted when one is lost in a desert], what time does Shabbos begin or end:
(i) place where one left from [very ambiguous standard, what “place”],
(ii) lowest point of the sun is sunset, highest is sunrise (odd because lowest point is the sun’s general revolution (aka earth’s revolution) is chatzos, not sunset,
(iii) highest and lowest points of the sun are chatzos hayom and Layla, 12 hours in between each, six hours before highest point is sunrise, six hours later is sunset,
(iv) use the sunset/sunrise of the same longitude,
(v)  Just use Israel zmanim (Jerusalem?).


If so how do calculate? When do you start the seven years from?

Offline avromie7

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2019, 04:57:43 PM »
If so how do calculate? When do you start the seven years from?
Presumably year 1 since creation (5779 years ago) that's how we calculate leap years and shmitah. The bigger issue is calculating it in areas that have multiple days in a year meaning if one place has 2 days a year and you then move to a place that has 3, does it suddenly become shabbos if that's the day that place is up to?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2019, 11:06:59 AM »
Presumably year 1 since creation (5779 years ago) that's how we calculate leap years and shmitah. The bigger issue is calculating it in areas that have multiple days in a year meaning if one place has 2 days a year and you then move to a place that has 3, does it suddenly become shabbos if that's the day that place is up to?

Is that any different than the dateline question?

Offline Dan

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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2021, 09:55:16 PM »
Indeed, transpolar flights are a major issue and many people don’t even realise. I am BEH working on an updated write-up about this.
Bump :)
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2021, 10:07:22 PM »
Bump :)

+1

I have asked about this as it relates to Sefira since it seems to be a similar problem as crossing the dateline. There are also those that avoid crossing that line throughout the year (and let's not even get into the question of its location, and whether one should avoid getting into sfekos about it for non-necessities).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline jose34

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2021, 10:07:29 PM »
Bump :)

One of the main topics in R' Kuber's book.
Such as flights from NY to Japan.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2021, 10:09:27 PM »
One of the main topics in R' Kuber's book.
Such as flights from NY to Japan.

I guess using IST as a connection point for East-West flights is likely to skirt most of the issues.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 10:15:16 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #68 on: September 18, 2023, 10:01:39 AM »
https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/guest-post-halachic-zmanim-polar-regions-kosher-antarctica-cruise/
In ‘The Great Zmanim Debate’ Rabbi Notice has an interesting perspective on polar Zmanim, based on the Gra:








Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2024, 02:12:48 PM »
Also not talking about anyone's standards, other than my own, which I wouldn't compromise for an Antarctica trip, as much as I find that intriguing. Advertising participantion of Harper might have tipped the scale.

So, you would have compromised your standards if you knew Harper was going to Antarctica on our ship?

Everything needs to be evaluated. The experience of spending time with such a person might have tipped the scale (not saying it would have, just that it would have made it a serious thing to consider).

Seminars are evaluated by the value of the speakers. The more admirable, diverse, intellectually engaging and/or challenging, the better.


He was incredible and I do think our group made a K"H. Pity he doesn't reenter politics.
But I still don't see how that changes things if there are halachic issues.

That being said, we had extensive halachic discussions with many experts in field and had contingency plans for all scenarios. Luckily we didn't need any of them and there were no halachic questions in the end.



Please don't get me wrong. I am not doubting the Halachic validity of anything you did. But as you said there were various possible scenarios, and things might just be בדיעבד and still OK.

I have my own preferences as to what kind of situations I am willing to find myself in exchange what benefit.


If your standards are lifnim mishuras hadin…

https://www.dansdeals.com/points-travel/trip-notes/guest-post-halachic-zmanim-polar-regions-kosher-antarctica-cruise/

But as it would be a pity for this to just sit in my Gmail...

« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 02:16:33 PM by Dan »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2024, 02:14:04 PM »









« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 02:42:57 PM by Dan »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2024, 02:31:45 PM »



















« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 02:42:48 PM by Dan »
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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2024, 02:32:52 PM »








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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2024, 02:34:56 PM »










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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2024, 02:35:49 PM »






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Offline Dan

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2024, 02:38:19 PM »












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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2024, 02:40:44 PM »










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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2024, 02:45:42 PM »




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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2024, 02:47:34 PM »
And that's just some of the שקלא וטריא that went on behind the scenes. Wasn't needed this time, but who knows about next time.

Or perhaps when Elon sends one of us to the moon or Mars? Is the answer to advances in technology that we should avoid it or that we should dig and find halachic answers?
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Offline imayid2

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Re: Polar Zmanim On The Antarctic Cruise
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2024, 03:05:12 PM »
And that's just some of the שקלא וטריא that went on behind the scenes. Wasn't needed this time, but who knows about next time.

Or perhaps when Elon sends one of us to the moon or Mars? Is the answer to advances in technology that we should avoid it or that we should dig and find halachic answers?
Sadly, without a Sanhedrin certain shaalos will never have a clear הכרעה. Definitely makes sense to avoid such a situation.