Author Topic: Time Travel  (Read 1198 times)

Offline eyj

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2019, 12:21:49 AM »
Unless when you go back you go into a different timeline that's independent of this one.

If there are an infinite number of timelines representing all of the possible choices that were made in history, why bother going back to another timeline? You will simply be creating two new timelines- one where you chose to go back, and the other where you chose not to...

Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2019, 12:34:28 AM »
If you look at life like a comic strip, or any book for that matter, it may help. You can read the book in any order, flip to the end, do as you wish, but it will have no bearing on the actual story. Being able to see the future doesn't mean you have the power to change it. G-d may very well have that power, but we are told he doesn't exercise it, as we have free will.
And this answer is satisfactory to you?
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Offline eyj

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 12:40:20 AM »
If you look at life like a comic strip, or any book for that matter, it may help. You can read the book in any order, flip to the end, do as you wish, but it will have no bearing on the actual story. Being able to see the future doesn't mean you have the power to change it. G-d may very well have that power, but we are told he doesn't exercise it, as we have free will.

It’s much more complex than that. As the Rambam says, and the Tanya and others discuss  הוא המדע והוא היודע והוא הידוע
Hashem’s knowledge is itself the existence of all of creation; it is not separated in any way from Him. For anything to have an existence it must be his ידיעה that gives it its existence. He “knows” everything in existence simply by knowing Himself. He, and therefore his ידיעה transcend time. He created time but is not bound by time, therefore his ידיעה (“right now” from a human perspective) encompasses all points in time from the beginning of time until it’s very end, giving everything across all time it’s existence. To say that he doesn’t know at one point in time what is transpiring in another point in time is to to not understand His relationship to time. Since He necessarily “knows” what is taking place across all time, since that is what gives existence to all of creation across all time,  that knowledge creates the reality, seemingly leaving no room for any other possibilities. That is the problem.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 01:00:13 AM by eyj »

Offline shulem92

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2019, 12:41:36 AM »
Would you go back in time and kill Hitler as a child? It would save millions of lives of those who perished in the holocaust, but would simultaneously eliminate millions of people alive today whose parents would never have met, likely including you. Of course if you don’t exist you could never have travelled back in time to kill Hitler....
ever read 1963?

Offline Definitions

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 12:43:34 AM »
If there are an infinite number of timelines representing all of the possible choices that were made in history, why bother going back to another timeline? You will simply be creating two new timelines- one where you chose to go back, and the other where you chose not to...
To build your perfect life.
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Offline eyj

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2019, 01:02:51 AM »
To build your perfect life.

If you are changing the other timeline you are creating the perfect life for your alter self, not for you. You are in this timeline and are unchanged by what has ranspired in the alternate timeline.

If that alter self is considered you as well, you are only building the perfect life in one timeline. That is almost irrelevant in the context of millions of timelines you will never be able to fix- the time you almost crashed and suffered a disfiguring injury becomes a timeline where that did indeed happen etc.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 01:08:12 AM by eyj »

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2019, 01:38:05 AM »
If you are changing the other timeline you are creating the perfect life for your alter self, not for you. You are in this timeline and are unchanged by what has ranspired in the alternate timeline.

If that alter self is considered you as well, you are only building the perfect life in one timeline. That is almost irrelevant in the context of millions of timelines you will never be able to fix- the time you almost crashed and suffered a disfiguring injury becomes a timeline where that did indeed happen etc.
You become a new person in this timeline in which you can use your knowledge of the predicted outcome to make a solid choice. There can be another person that has the same dna as you in this timeline. And yes you won't be able to change any forfeited timelines but who cares.

Just to clarify. From your previous comment it seems like you're going with that there are an infinite amount of timelines, one for each point in time.

Maybe there's only one timeline as of now and if you travel back you'll create a second timeline. And maybe that timeline only exists from the point of creation if you go any further back you'll go back into the timeline you exited from and start a new timeline from whichever point of time you land on.
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 02:00:35 AM »
It’s much more complex than that. As the Rambam says, and the Tanya and others discuss  הוא המדע והוא היודע והוא הידוע
Hashem’s knowledge is itself the existence of all of creation; it is not separated in any way from Him. For anything to have an existence it must be his ידיעה that gives it its existence. He “knows” everything in existence simply by knowing Himself. He, and therefore his ידיעה transcend time. He created time but is not bound by time, therefore his ידיעה (“right now” from a human perspective) encompasses all points in time from the beginning of time until it’s very end, giving everything across all time it’s existence. To say that he doesn’t know at one point in time what is transpiring in another point in time is to to not understand His relationship to time. Since He necessarily “knows” what is taking place across all time, since that is what gives existence to all of creation across all time,  that knowledge creates the reality, seemingly leaving no room for any other possibilities. That is the problem.
I've seen this before. I was never able to understand it and how it answers the question.
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Offline eyj

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2019, 07:05:12 AM »
You become a new person in this timeline in which you can use your knowledge of the predicted outcome to make a solid choice. There can be another person that has the same dna as you in this timeline. And yes you won't be able to change any forfeited timelines but who cares.

Just to clarify. From your previous comment it seems like you're going with that there are an infinite amount of timelines, one for each point in time.

Maybe there's only one timeline as of now and if you travel back you'll create a second timeline. And maybe that timeline only exists from the point of creation if you go any further back you'll go back into the timeline you exited from and start a new timeline from whichever point of time you land on.


Why would timelines only be created for you going back in time unless you are writing a cute fiction plot in which case anything goes? Logically-if this conversation can be called something akin to logical- if the possibility of parallel timelines exist they should be constantly created. It is unreasonable to suggest that they only exist when you go back in time...

Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2019, 07:10:05 AM »
I've seen this before. I was never able to understand it and how it answers the question.
It doesn't
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2019, 07:37:18 AM »
Sure they have.
I thought for sure a mod was going to edit that post to freak him out
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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2019, 08:59:06 AM »
And this answer is satisfactory to you?
Not this answer alone, but it's the basis for a satisfactory understanding on my part. This isn't the type of question you can just answer, but you can give someone the perspective to understand it on their own. I wouldn't say every aspect of the question is answered, but it's a start.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2019, 09:13:55 AM »
Not this answer alone, but it's the basis for a satisfactory understanding on my part. This isn't the type of question you can just answer, but you can give someone the perspective to understand it on their own. I wouldn't say every aspect of the question is answered, but it's a start.
It exacerbates the problem. Seeing the future is one thing, but that the future is already occurring simultaneous with the present makes free will infinitely more difficult to understand.

The greatest philosophers, Jewish and non-Jewish, have struggled with this problem. I was surprised to hear that you had it all figured out.
If you don't care why would you comment?
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Offline Emkay

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2019, 09:40:18 AM »
Not traveling back in time. No one from the future has done it.
How do you know?

Offline eyj

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2019, 09:48:12 AM »
I've seen this before. I was never able to understand it and how it answers the question.

It doesn’t answer the question because it is not meant to. To the contrary, it is  meant to explain why the easy answer of comparing it to watching a video of something etc. doesn’t really work when it comes to the ידיעה of Hashem. Therefore we must go back to the limitations of human understanding....