Author Topic: Time Travel  (Read 1903 times)

Offline ADG

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2019, 02:06:27 PM »
Either nothing is hashgacha pratis, everything is, or something in the middle. CMIIW but no source earlier than the bal shem tov holds such an extreme position as "everything". To each their own, but it's totally counter intuitive to me and doesn't sit well with me at all.

I never really known that there are opinions that disagree with the Ba'al Shemtov on this. Thank you for teaching me something. To me the Ba'al Shemtov's shita is the only intuitive notion and without it... well, lets just say its the only way I can perceive Judaism and reality.

It is much more comforting (intuitive) to say the Holocaust happened by Hashgacha Protis, than without it. (As precedent, I would also point out how Hashem explicitly planned Galus Mizraim in the text) 

Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2019, 02:08:31 PM »
I never really known that there are opinions that disagree with the Ba'al Shemtov on this. Thank you for teaching me something. To me the Ba'al Shemtov's shita is the only intuitive notion and without it... well, lets just say its the only way I can perceive Judaism and reality.

It is much more comforting (intuitive) to say the Holocaust happened by Hashgacha Protis, than without it. (As precedent, I would also point out how Hashem explicitly planned Galus Mizraim in the text)
I don't think anyone would disagree that the Holocaust on a general level was hashgacha pratis.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2019, 02:09:43 PM »
I don't think anyone would disagree that the Holocaust on a general level was hashgacha pratis.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2019, 02:11:24 PM »
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Point taken. I guess it depends where you draw the line between the macro and the micro.
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Offline Redbull3

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2019, 02:20:03 PM »
I don't think anyone would disagree that the Holocaust on a general level was hashgacha pratis.
Not looking to start a fight but personally I would say we don't know either way. Like we know hashem hardened paroah's heart, because it was in the torah. But we don't know that hitler's free will was removed to enable the holocaust. I just don't think we have the standing to say so either way.

Offline Redbull3

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #50 on: January 09, 2019, 02:21:33 PM »
I never really known that there are opinions that disagree with the Ba'al Shemtov on this. Thank you for teaching me something. To me the Ba'al Shemtov's shita is the only intuitive notion and without it... well, lets just say its the only way I can perceive Judaism and reality.

It is much more comforting (intuitive) to say the Holocaust happened by Hashgacha Protis, than without it. (As precedent, I would also point out how Hashem explicitly planned Galus Mizraim in the text)
For me, first and foremost things need to make sense rationally. I guess I am attracted to this religion from a different perspective. I certainly get why it's comforting. I'm not allergic to other opinions, like I said above to each their own.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2019, 02:38:36 PM »
Not looking to start a fight but personally I would say we don't know either way. Like we know hashem hardened paroah's heart, because it was in the torah. But we don't know that hitler's free will was removed to enable the holocaust. I just don't think we have the standing to say so either way.
I don't think anyone said Hitler's free will was removed. It was hashgacha, and at the same time he did it through bechira. Fwiw, some learn that paroah also had bechira

Offline aygart

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2019, 02:48:06 PM »
Not exclusively.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
The concept of the universe we are in being finite and there being other universes which are totally separate from this one is very different from the time travel concept.
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Offline ADG

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2019, 02:48:09 PM »
For me, first and foremost things need to make sense rationally. I guess I am attracted to this religion from a different perspective. I certainly get why it's comforting. I'm not allergic to other opinions, like I said above to each their own.

How is my perspective not Rational?


Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2019, 02:56:03 PM »
The concept of the universe we are in being finite and there being other universes which are totally separate from this one is very different from the time travel concept.
Time travel is related to the existence of alternate timelines and being able to traverse the multiverse.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2019, 02:58:32 PM »
Time travel is related to the existence of alternate timelines and being able to traverse the multiverse.
A concept which is nothing but fantasy made purely for the purpose of time travel in fiction and unrelated to the multiverse in science which is spacial.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2019, 03:02:23 PM »
A concept which is nothing but fantasy made purely for the purpose of time travel in fiction and unrelated to the multiverse in science which is spacial.
Here's a better link to the scientific concept I was referring to. It's not a spacial concept.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
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Offline aygart

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2019, 04:26:48 PM »
Here's a better link to the scientific concept I was referring to. It's not a spacial concept.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
Thought experiments.....  ::)
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Offline good sam

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #58 on: January 09, 2019, 05:22:27 PM »
Thought experiments.....  ::)
You have a better explanation for the  Schrödinger's Cat problem?
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Offline chevron

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Re: Time Travel
« Reply #59 on: January 09, 2019, 05:39:07 PM »
What about rashba opinion that the world goes through 6000 year cycles? Do we do everything exactly the same way every 6k years?