Author Topic: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist  (Read 23582 times)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #120 on: March 03, 2022, 11:45:36 AM »
Source? Link?

Damage to whom? Did Lev Leviev's family suffer ANY repercussions from Simon Leviev's (a.k.a. Shimon Hayut) actions? Whether now, or at any point in the past?

To win what? In which jurisdiction? What remedies are available if one wins a defamation suit?

(as a side note, Lev Leviev's family are שומרי תומ"צ as far as I know, in a Din Torah even if damage could be proven, I am not sure that they could collect. I am definitely not an expert in Choshen Mishpot, maybe someone who is well versed could chime in).
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #121 on: March 03, 2022, 12:15:39 PM »
Watch the documentary if you care enough :P

I definitely do not care enough to waste my time watching a Netflix documentary.

I did listen to the podcast posted above, and was conviced that his father was a partner in crime (recordings cannot be denied). But again, please point to where Lev Leviev and his family suffered any repercussions from Simon Leviev's actions or misrepresentations. I get it that it's extremely annoying for them, but I don't know that any punitive damages would be awarded based on that.
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #122 on: March 03, 2022, 12:49:17 PM »
Here is an example of a case where damages were awarded just because the defendant failed to respond to the suit. I am doubtful whether damages would have been awarded if it actually went to a proper trial.

https://m.ynet.co.il/articles/hyex11r2gq
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Offline AsherO

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #123 on: March 03, 2022, 01:16:15 PM »
(as a side note, Lev Leviev's family are שומרי תומ"צ as far as I know, in a Din Torah even if damage could be proven, I am not sure that they could collect. I am definitely not an expert in Choshen Mishpot, maybe someone who is well versed could chime in).

Maybe not in the context of damages per se, I'd hope a BD would order this crook to cease and desist and put penalties in place for violating those. How enforceable BD penalties are is a different discussion, but not so relevant here because they are going to court.

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #124 on: March 03, 2022, 02:20:45 PM »
Maybe not in the context of damages per se, I'd hope a BD would order this crook to cease and desist and put penalties in place for violating those. How enforceable BD penalties are is a different discussion, but not so relevant here because they are going to court.

Cease and desist from what? From presenting himself by his legal name?

What BD imposes penalties in our days?

Quick google search came up with the following:

https://www.toraland.org.il/%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%9E%D7%A8%D7%99%D7%9D/%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%9B%D7%9C%D7%94-%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98/%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%98-%D7%94%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A8%D7%94/%D7%9E%D7%94-%D7%91%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%93%D7%99%D7%9F-%D7%93%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D-%D7%91%D7%96%D7%9E%D7%9F-%D7%94%D7%96%D7%94/

The guy might be the biggest crook around, but he ain't stupid. He knows what he can be made to pay for, and what he cannot be made to pay for.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 02:25:24 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #125 on: March 03, 2022, 02:39:44 PM »
At this point it seems like it's some sort of private criminal case, where unlike a regular criminal case which is brought about by the state, this is brought by a private citizen alleging criminal activity.

https://www.ophirlaw.com/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%9C%D7%A0%D7%94-%D7%A4%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%AA-%D7%A0%D7%92%D7%93-%D7%A1%D7%99%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%9F-%D7%9C%D7%91%D7%99%D7%99%D7%91-%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%98/

https://www.ynet.co.il/economy/article/ry00rfj5x9

The lawyer claims that a damages lawsuit will follow. I am skeptical.

IMHO, at this point the attorney is the new swindler, agreeing to bring about these cases and charge legal fees, even though he knows that he can't collect anything for them.

Reminds me of a Din Torah I was called to a few months ago, where someone tried to tie me into something that was done by someone else, after the session was over, I spoke to the טוען that brought the case to BD, and asked him why doesn't he just point out to his client that he is unlikely to collect anything, he should rather swallow his pride and losses and move on. The טוען knew full well that I was right, but he said that this is a matter of principle for the client. I am not so sure the client wouldn't back down from paying additional fees to the טוען if it was made clear and unequivocal to him that he stands no chance to collect anything in BD.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 02:45:15 PM by ExGingi »
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #126 on: March 03, 2022, 02:49:02 PM »
Cease and desist from what? From presenting himself by his legal name?
For presenting himself as being a family member. IIRC he also wrote bounced checks which pretended to be from the family business. He also gave them jobs/paychecks from the family business.
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #127 on: March 03, 2022, 03:03:48 PM »
For presenting himself as being a family member.
As far as I understand he hasn't been doing that for years. I am not sure if he ever explicitly said he is a family member, even if he might have implied so.

IIRC he also wrote bounced checks which pretended to be from the family business. He also gave them jobs/paychecks from the family business.

Did he? Checks from which family business? How did he get those checks? And again, did Lev Leviev's family suffer any MATERIAL or REPUTATIONAL damage?
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2022, 03:08:44 PM »
As far as I understand he hasn't been doing that for years. I am not sure if he ever explicitly said he is a family member, even if he might have implied so.

Did he? Checks from which family business? How did he get those checks? And again, did Lev Leviev's family suffer any MATERIAL or REPUTATIONAL damage?
Yes he said he was the family member, and they were going to kill him because of his father.
The damage is to the reputation to the family name. That will be for the courts to decide.
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #129 on: March 03, 2022, 03:40:11 PM »
Yes he said he was the family member, and they were going to kill him because of his father.
The damage is to the reputation to the family name. That will be for the courts to decide.

So if I start a DDF username JuniorCountValentine and try to do business dealings with DDF members, based on the reputation of CountValentine, and it turns out that I am a swindler. Did the real CountValentine suffer any reputational damage?
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #130 on: March 03, 2022, 04:54:24 PM »
So if I start a DDF username JuniorCountValentine and try to do business dealings with DDF members, based on the reputation of CountValentine, and it turns out that I am a swindler. Did the real CountValentine suffer any reputational damage?
I think CV's reputation is well known around here. Junior isn't going to change it  ;)

Offline jj1000

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #131 on: March 03, 2022, 05:04:41 PM »
So if I start a DDF username JuniorCountValentine and try to do business dealings with DDF members, based on the reputation of CountValentine, and it turns out that I am a swindler. Did the real CountValentine suffer any reputational damage?
I don't know Israeli law at all.

In America you can 100% get a reward without proving any damages.

Punitive can be for committing fraud with their name, which yes he 100% did do explicitly. If he enriched himself to the tune of $10mm thanks to their name it's totally resaonable for a jury to award the family a $10mm punitive award or much more because it was gained through fraud.

Also for reputational damage - if the Leviev business has spent let's say $100mm on ads for their company or spent $1mm on PR firms in the past then the damage he caused can be proven to be worth whatever amount they have spent on trying to make reputation better.

Again this is my understanding of American law, I don't know anything about Israel.
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #132 on: March 03, 2022, 05:53:54 PM »
So if I start a DDF username JuniorCountValentine and try to do business dealings with DDF members, based on the reputation of CountValentine, and it turns out that I am a swindler. Did the real CountValentine suffer any reputational damage?
Count Valentine was burned at the stake in 1749. Don't think you can harm his reputation.  :)
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2022, 05:54:41 PM »
I don't know Israeli law at all.

In America you can 100% get a reward without proving any damages.

Punitive can be for committing fraud with their name, which yes he 100% did do explicitly. If he enriched himself to the tune of $10mm thanks to their name it's totally resaonable for a jury to award the family a $10mm punitive award or much more because it was gained through fraud.

Also for reputational damage - if the Leviev business has spent let's say $100mm on ads for their company or spent $1mm on PR firms in the past then the damage he caused can be proven to be worth whatever amount they have spent on trying to make reputation better.

Again this is my understanding of American law, I don't know anything about Israel.

Are you an attorney?

Also, the following seems to prove my point about reputational damage:

I think CV's reputation is well known around here. Junior isn't going to change it  ;)
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2022, 05:55:25 PM »
Count Valentine was burned at the stake in 1749. Don't think you can harm his reputation.  :)

We are talking about the 2022 persona.
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2022, 06:12:50 PM »
Count Valentine was burned at the stake in 1749. Don't think you can harm his reputation.  :)
And they drank the liquids that far back? Wow!
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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2022, 06:21:26 PM »
I was thinking this too. I guess if they’re suing them they think they have/can get enough proof to win.
or they are just trying to make a public statement to fully disassociate themselves with him

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2022, 06:28:25 PM »
Count Valentine was burned at the stake in 1749. Don't think you can harm his reputation.  :)
(since u havent updated ur username to rabbi valentine, ill have to assume the former)
???

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2022, 06:37:58 PM »
So if I start a DDF username JuniorCountValentine

A better parallel would be if you made a new username, and started posting MSN links and sticking forks in stuff so that people thought you were a new incarnation of CV.

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Re: Real Life Israeli "Catch Me If You Can" Con Artist
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2022, 06:51:43 PM »
Are you an attorney?

No, but I dropped out of an Ivy League Law School, so every attorney I've talked to tells me I'm smarter than a lawyer.

FWIW :P
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