Topic Wiki

Because someone is going to find this thread and think it's a Guide, here is some useful information that we've gleaned from the thread. Note, the topic is 'Orthodox' Jewish life - while there are a lot of great resources out there, not many of them seems orthodox specific, but they're a useful starting point. Please feel free to improve the wiki.


Some Caveats:
  • Not all Campus Chabad's are "Official" Chabad houses - they may not show up in the chabad.org search
  • Data and situations change all of the time - the resources above are good guidelines, but always reach out and check

Establishing Residency:
A lot of "State" colleges have different in-state/out-of-state tuition rates. For example, Rutgers and SUNY are about 25-30 for in-state residents, and 40-45 for out of state residents. "State" colleges aren't limited to the ones with "state" in their names, and in some examples, because of state funding, even private colleges have different rates - Cornell, being one example,certain schools are funded in part by SUNY, and have reduced in-state tuition.

In addition, as colleges search for more money, they'll sometimes admit more out-of-state students for the purpose of having someone pay the higher tuition. Originally, people would use the opportunity to switch residency freshman year so that subsequent years are at the in-state rate.  But colleges have caught on making it more difficult to switch. For example, Maryland recently (last year) changed their requirements so that you have to be living in-state for purposes other than Education, and that you are not dependent on income from your parents who live out of state: http://registrar.umd.edu/Residency/resreclassfaq.html. Every state and school has different residency requirements, it's worth checking each school.

Some important notes:
  • Some schools allow you to claim residency if you don't live there, but attended high school there. A common example - kids in NY who go to HS in NJ or vice versa, or someone who is from NY, but went to boarding school in another state. Again, need to check with the school
  • Some schools need you to establish residency there for 12 months. So you could take a gap year in that new state, and then use that as the basis for residency

Doing a Gap Year(s) first:
  • Assuming that you applied to college while still in high school, some colleges will let you defer your admission, others will not
  • Most schools will allow you to defer one year, but a lot may not allow more than that (Macaulay honors at CUNY is one example)
  • Getting Yeshiva/Seminary credits accepted is a mixed bag - it depends on the school, major, and program
  • Some programs don't accept any credits, others will accept credits, but they may not account towards your major. For example, if you major in something technical like engineering, you may need 110-115 credits in required courses, so even if they take your 32 credits from Israel, not all count towards your degree
  • Most colleges have minimum residency requirements, which max the number of credits you can transfer in

« Last edited by Yonah on February 28, 2019, 10:53:15 AM »

Author Topic: Orthodox College Life Guide?  (Read 10660 times)

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2019, 04:00:21 PM »
If it's not on the list, then it's not an officially recognized Chabad House. There are hundreds of non-official Chabads across the globe in addition to the thousands of official Chabad Houses.

From a practical sense, what does this mean? Do people ever get into disputes - i.e. official vs unofficial?

The other option is to let him board at home and go to a local college/university. It depends where you live ...

That works for a lot of people in a lot of places, likewise, if he goes to a college with an urban campus in a major city, it might be close to the Jewish Community. For example, if you go to Hunter College, CCNY, Baruch college (all CUNY schools) you can live in the city in an apt, and be near shul and kosher food isn't an issue. The trick is for the 'campus' like schools that are far away from civilization.

Take Rutgers as an example. It's about 5-10 minute drive from Kosher restaurants and shopping in Edison/Highland Park. There is a Hillel, and a Chabad (albeit unofficial). Until you visit campus you don't realize that there is only one section that Frum people can live in and be realistically able to go to shul on shabbos. If I had searched Chabad's database, I'd have found the Chabad in Monroe, and not the 'unofficial' one at Rutgers.

While many colleges have Hillel, hillel is a mixed bag - and you'd have to dig a little deeper to find out if they provide a meal plan, who gives the hechsher, do they have minyan, etc.




Offline Dan

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2019, 04:01:40 PM »
From a practical sense, what does this mean?
Typically nothing that would make a difference to you other than you wont find them on Chabad.org.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2019, 04:06:17 PM »
Typically nothing that would make a difference to you other than you wont find them on Chabad.org.
Why? What do they do that they get exluded?
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline MeirS

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2019, 04:07:44 PM »
I've many friends who were thrown out of there :) - The school is a great trivia question - what's the only chabad yeshiva not official Tomchei or Achei Tmimim :)
As well as OT, TE in Yerushalayim and I'm sure a few others.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2019, 04:09:13 PM »
This is information the college guidance counselor at your son's school should have.
This might also help:
OU-JLIC College Guide 2018-2019: Jewish Life on the College Campus

By the way Here is a link to the 16-17 guide as a PDF - https://oujlic.org/content/uploads/2016/10/JLIC_16-17CampusProfiles-1.pdf
Here is a link to their database: https://alumni.ncsy.org/map/

The PDF is of limited use, since pretty much all of the campuses are OU-JLIC Campuses. The database is a little better, but is also seemingly out of date. For example, many of the records were last added in 2015 or 16, and while it's quite possible that the information hasn't changed for many campuses, it's also possible that some schools are pushing to get more Orthodox Jews as students, and therefore the Jewish life is growing.

Offline dpk4588

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2019, 04:16:58 PM »
By the way Here is a link to the 16-17 guide as a PDF - https://oujlic.org/content/uploads/2016/10/JLIC_16-17CampusProfiles-1.pdf
Here is a link to their database: https://alumni.ncsy.org/map/

The PDF is of limited use, since pretty much all of the campuses are OU-JLIC Campuses. The database is a little better, but is also seemingly out of date. For example, many of the records were last added in 2015 or 16, and while it's quite possible that the information hasn't changed for many campuses, it's also possible that some schools are pushing to get more Orthodox Jews as students, and therefore the Jewish life is growing.
I know that the college of Charleston has a Kosher cafe (vegetarian) as a draw for Jews, but I don't think it worked.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
-Albert Einstein

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2019, 04:28:26 PM »
Added the Wiki Section. Feel Free to edit.

Offline bentch

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2019, 04:40:49 PM »
Not sure if this is the best place to post. But I am in the process of looking at colleges for with my oldest, and I am having a hard time finding out about Frum life on campus. Yes there are those same 20 campuses that we know are good, but then my son comes up with a name of a college out of left field, and it's hard to gauge what is there - short of hunting down the local chabad shaliach and calling him to find out the scoop.

The one or two guides I've found are either too focused on Jewish Life, but not necessarily orthodox or are out of date, or both. For example, apparently UNC has a lot of Jewish Life, a huge birthright trip, and a ton of Israel clubs - but it has no on-campus kosher meal options.

Does chabad have a college guide? Any thoughts? Is it worth creating a wiki here or will it fall unmaintained? I think that the questions I probably want answered:

- Availability of Kosher Food (and Hashgacha)
- Minyanim - with Frequency and Size i.e. Daily/Shabbos and Yom Tov, 15 people daily, 50 on S/YT
- Proximity of off-campus kosher/frum community
- Hillel Orthodox Rabbi / chabad shluchim info.

where is ur kid thinking of applying to? i can try to help answer some of your q's about specific schools having gone through the same process not too long ago.


Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2019, 04:56:09 PM »
where is ur kid thinking of applying to? i can try to help answer some of your q's about specific schools having gone through the same process not too long ago.


That's the problem - he's not sure. He'll say Dad I want to go to school X, and then I'll point out that a) he can't get in, b) There is no kosher food c) it's two flights to get there.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2019, 05:22:20 PM »
That's the problem - he's not sure. He'll say Dad I want to go to school X, and then I'll point out that a) he can't get in, b) There is no kosher food c) it's two flights to get there.
reality check  ;D
tough.
btw there are some places e.g. Queens where you can go to yeshiva in the morning and college afternoon.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2019, 05:27:35 PM »
reality check  ;D
tough.
btw there are some places e.g. Queens where you can go to yeshiva in the morning and college afternoon.

Yes, but even those get complicated. For example, through CUNY, you can get a Macaulay Scholarship - completely free tuition - but you need to take day classes. I know someone who earned it, and thought he would do Yeshiva in the AM and Brooklyn College in the evenings, until they told him no dice. Then he had a hard time finding a Yeshiva that would let him go to college in the morning and only come for afternoon seder.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2019, 06:22:06 PM »
Yes, but even those get complicated. For example, through CUNY, you can get a Macaulay Scholarship - completely free tuition - but you need to take day classes. I know someone who earned it, and thought he would do Yeshiva in the AM and Brooklyn College in the evenings, until they told him no dice. Then he had a hard time finding a Yeshiva that would let him go to college in the morning and only come for afternoon seder.
Macaulay is a huge pain in the neck anyway. Many, many frum kids get in, and  very few actually go. If he can get into Macaulay, he can get substantial scholarships in each school's honors program that are more worthwhile.

Offline Denverite

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2019, 06:22:26 PM »
Obviously not for everyone but I just thought I'd throw out an Israel option.  Bar Ilan has a separate international school that is now offering Bachelor's degrees in English and the tuition is only 13,500 NIS per yer.  Obviously it's a longer flight but with that cheap tuition, it might be worth it! :)

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2019, 09:11:15 AM »
Macaulay is a huge pain in the neck anyway. Many, many frum kids get in, and  very few actually go. If he can get into Macaulay, he can get substantial scholarships in each school's honors program that are more worthwhile.

I think the word Frum means different things to you and I :) . I believe Frum = Shomer shabbos and Kashrus. I know plenty of Frum kids that do go to Macaulay - although you are likely right about the more yeshivish kids on both fronts. The person I mentioned before also quickly realized that Macaulay wasn't for him, and opted for Bais Medrash and got a full ride to his college while attending afternoons/evenings.

For the latter type of arrangements, and even for Macaulay, the campus info isn't as important. Any CUNY school is in close proximity to a Jewish Community, and even the official dorms are more apartment like. So you could go to Queens/Brooklyn/Hunter/Baruch/CCNY/Lehman (with Macaulay or not) and live in close proximity to a shul, shiurim ,and kosher food.






Offline zh cohen

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2019, 10:14:13 AM »
The following emphasizes how important Jewish life/atmosphere is, in addition to kosher and amenities.

https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/2300590/jewish/Keeping-Kosher-on-Campus.htm

Quote
It was the early 1960s, and I had discovered that too many Orthodox men and women who were going to out-of-town colleges were dropping Yiddishkeit and intermarrying. At first the number was three percent, but this number was going up rapidly, and this alarmed me.

I called together the officers of Young Israel and I said, “We have a problem!” We agonized over it, and we decided to ask a number of Jewish leaders what to do.
Quote
“Imagine a young man sitting in a college dining room with his non-Jewish peers,” the Rebbe continued. “How long is he going to put on his yarmulke and eat cottage cheese every single day? And what is he going to do when a girl says to him, ‘Take a taste of my lunch, it’s delicious!’ How can he deny her? After a while, the peer group will pressure him – not because they mean to pressure, not because they are opposed to what he is doing, but because that’s just how life is. And in the liberal atmosphere of the college campus, how can he not yield to that pressure?”
And then the Rebbe gave us his advice: “What you have to do is create a program to bring together all the young Jewish men and women in one place at the most vulnerable time. That most vulnerable time is not in the classroom when they are each interested in their own notes or their own marks, but in the non-classroom area. The best thing is to establish kosher ‘dining clubs’ on college campuses.”

Offline mercaz1

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2019, 10:16:37 AM »
Macaulay is a pain for a lot of people because I'm pretty sure they don't take any yeshiva credits so you are forced to go to 4 years of college even if you have credits from yeshiva/Seminary.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2019, 10:46:26 AM »
Macaulay is a pain for a lot of people because I'm pretty sure they don't take any yeshiva credits so you are forced to go to 4 years of college even if you have credits from yeshiva/Seminary.

Yes - but there are still a lot of schools/majors where Yeshiva Credit is useless. As an engineering major, for example - you may only be able to get 5-10 credit that count towards your degree (a lot of YMMV here). Again, it depends what your are going for. If your goal is to leverage your years in Yeshiva/Sem to graduate as quickly as possible, Macaulay won't work. I'm not sure how Yeshiva credit is accepted by the Ivies either.

But this is a good point for the Wiki, so thanks for reminding me.
Another point about Macaulay, is that I believe that they only let you defer for one year - so you can't spend more than 1 full year in Yeshiva/Sem

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2019, 10:47:56 AM »
Another point about Macaulay, is that I believe that they only let you defer for one year - so you can't spend more than 1 full year in Yeshiva/Sem
I think they don't let you defer even one year

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2019, 10:59:43 AM »
As of a couple of years ago, they did, and I know a few people who've done it. I haven't heard of anyone being denied, but it is possible, and its definitely limited to one year. Here's a link from Baruch college:

https://blogs.baruch.cuny.edu/honors/prospective-students/new-student-events/welcome/request-to-defer-macaulay-and-baruch-scholars/


Offline skyguy918

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2019, 11:22:33 AM »
Yes - but there are still a lot of schools/majors where Yeshiva Credit is useless. As an engineering major, for example - you may only be able to get 5-10 credit that count towards your degree (a lot of YMMV here). Again, it depends what your are going for. If your goal is to leverage your years in Yeshiva/Sem to graduate as quickly as possible, Macaulay won't work. I'm not sure how Yeshiva credit is accepted by the Ivies either.

But this is a good point for the Wiki, so thanks for reminding me.
Another point about Macaulay, is that I believe that they only let you defer for one year - so you can't spend more than 1 full year in Yeshiva/Sem
I think they don't let you defer even one year
Pretty sure they do allow one year. It was frum students that fought for this. 3 girls in my sister's class got in, including my sister, and wanted to defer so they could go to seminary. They eventually changed the policy, and IINM, none of them ended up enrolling in the program ;D

There are also additional requirements Macaulay tacks on, some of which is pretty standard in honors programs, some of which is definitely not:
Quote
Macaulay students must achieve a GPA of 3.3 in their first three college semesters and through their 45th credit, and a 3.5 GPA thereafter.
Macaulay students are expected to be enrolled as full-time students (minimally 12 credits), unless the Dean and/or Provost of Macaulay Honors College gives a student permission to do otherwise due to exceptional circumstances. However, some campuses and degree programs may require additional credits per semester; your honors advisor should be consulted regarding your program planning.
Macaulay students must successfully pass all of the four Macaulay Seminars.
Macaulay students must successfully complete a minimum of four additional honors courses. (The honors programs at some colleges require more.)
Macaulay students must complete honors in their major and a senior thesis or capstone project.
IF these options are not available, or with special permission, students may, with the approval of the Provost, choose among these three options: (1) Students may take two extra upper division Honors classes on any campus, including at Macaulay. (2) Students may enroll in Macaulay’s Springboard Senior Thesis class (a two-semester commitment; students will not be permitted to enter mid-year). (3) Students may complete an independent senior thesis project at their home campus, in consultation with their Macaulay advisor.
Macaulay students must either study abroad or complete a qualifying internship or research experience.
Macaulay students must complete thirty (30) hours of community service before the senior year. At least ten (10) hours must be completed within the first year.  (Some campuses require more hours).
Macaulay students  must adhere to the Honors Integrity Pledge at all times.