Topic Wiki

Because someone is going to find this thread and think it's a Guide, here is some useful information that we've gleaned from the thread. Note, the topic is 'Orthodox' Jewish life - while there are a lot of great resources out there, not many of them seems orthodox specific, but they're a useful starting point. Please feel free to improve the wiki.


Some Caveats:
  • Not all Campus Chabad's are "Official" Chabad houses - they may not show up in the chabad.org search
  • Data and situations change all of the time - the resources above are good guidelines, but always reach out and check

Establishing Residency:
A lot of "State" colleges have different in-state/out-of-state tuition rates. For example, Rutgers and SUNY are about 25-30 for in-state residents, and 40-45 for out of state residents. "State" colleges aren't limited to the ones with "state" in their names, and in some examples, because of state funding, even private colleges have different rates - Cornell, being one example,certain schools are funded in part by SUNY, and have reduced in-state tuition.

In addition, as colleges search for more money, they'll sometimes admit more out-of-state students for the purpose of having someone pay the higher tuition. Originally, people would use the opportunity to switch residency freshman year so that subsequent years are at the in-state rate.  But colleges have caught on making it more difficult to switch. For example, Maryland recently (last year) changed their requirements so that you have to be living in-state for purposes other than Education, and that you are not dependent on income from your parents who live out of state: http://registrar.umd.edu/Residency/resreclassfaq.html. Every state and school has different residency requirements, it's worth checking each school.

Some important notes:
  • Some schools allow you to claim residency if you don't live there, but attended high school there. A common example - kids in NY who go to HS in NJ or vice versa, or someone who is from NY, but went to boarding school in another state. Again, need to check with the school
  • Some schools need you to establish residency there for 12 months. So you could take a gap year in that new state, and then use that as the basis for residency

Doing a Gap Year(s) first:
  • Assuming that you applied to college while still in high school, some colleges will let you defer your admission, others will not
  • Most schools will allow you to defer one year, but a lot may not allow more than that (Macaulay honors at CUNY is one example)
  • Getting Yeshiva/Seminary credits accepted is a mixed bag - it depends on the school, major, and program
  • Some programs don't accept any credits, others will accept credits, but they may not account towards your major. For example, if you major in something technical like engineering, you may need 110-115 credits in required courses, so even if they take your 32 credits from Israel, not all count towards your degree
  • Most colleges have minimum residency requirements, which max the number of credits you can transfer in

« Last edited by Yonah on February 28, 2019, 10:53:15 AM »

Author Topic: Orthodox College Life Guide?  (Read 10656 times)

Offline farmbochur

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2019, 12:24:53 PM »


Yes - but there are still a lot of schools/majors where Yeshiva Credit is useless. As an engineering major, for example - you may only be able to get 5-10 credit that count towards your degree (a lot of YMMV here).

Highly YMMV and also negotiable - especially at a small school. RMU.edu accepted 36 yeshiva credits from RCA and 19 CLEP credits towards an Actuarial science degree.

Saved a ton on tuition by graduating in 5 semesters without taking summer classes.

They even awarded a scholarship for the straight A's on my yeshiva transcript (), effectively matching the in-state tuition of the area public school.
Risk is opportunity

Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2019, 12:46:46 PM »

Highly YMMV and also negotiable - especially at a small school. RMU.edu accepted 36 yeshiva credits from RCA and 19 CLEP credits towards an Actuarial science degree.

Saved a ton on tuition by graduating in 5 semesters without taking summer classes.


... and I am sure that your 5 semesters were almost all 'tachlis' classes - i.e. math and business.


I had 45 yeshiva credits, and as an engineering student at Polytechnic, they would only accept 6 towards my engineering degree. (They said they'd gladly accept all 45, i'd just graduate with 173 credits instead of 128). I didn't even bother - because taking an extra 3-credit course cost me nothing, but they wanted to charge a few hundred bucks to honor the xfer credit. It also wouldn't save me time.

They even awarded a scholarship for the straight A's on my yeshiva transcript (), effectively matching the in-state tuition of the area public school.

Part of my scholarship included a scholarship to the highest rank student from your graduating class that attended their school. Since I was the only one from my yeshiva attending, I automatically received it.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2019, 02:28:17 PM »
Obviously not for everyone but I just thought I'd throw out an Israel option.  Bar Ilan has a separate international school that is now offering Bachelor's degrees in English and the tuition is only 13,500 NIS per yer.  Obviously it's a longer flight but with that cheap tuition, it might be worth it! :)
Israel has a lot of options from Machon Lev to IDC, but tuition + other expenses are probably going to be higher than City or State schools in the US, especially if the student lives at home. If you are planning to make aliyah then it's a great choice. You can also go to the army and allow them to pay for your education :) but that's already a completely different ballgame not your standard CUNY

Offline eliteflyer

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2019, 03:00:46 PM »
They even awarded a scholarship for the straight A's on my yeshiva transcript (), effectively matching the in-state tuition of the area public school.
Indeed, the GPA inflation on a yeshiva transcript should not be underestimated.

Offline farmbochur

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2019, 03:03:35 PM »
Indeed, the GPA inflation on a yeshiva transcript should not be underestimated.
YMMV

The Rosh put C's on my YOEC transcript
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Offline Yonah

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2019, 03:50:52 PM »
Israel has a lot of options from Machon Lev to IDC, but tuition + other expenses are probably going to be higher than City or State schools in the US, especially if the student lives at home. If you are planning to make aliyah then it's a great choice. You can also go to the army and allow them to pay for your education :) but that's already a completely different ballgame not your standard CUNY

Machon Lev is a great school - actually applied there, IIRC - I was admitted, but they wanted me to take a refresher math course and ulpan We're talking quite a few years ago). At the time, I had a serious discussion with my parents and family about it. At the end of the day, while my parents were supportive of my making Aliyah, they felt if I had an Israeli degree and decided to come back to the states i'd have a harder time finding a job. So I came back to the USA - unfortunately I'm still living here. I honestly think it would matter less in today's world.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2019, 10:32:14 AM »

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2019, 08:56:58 AM »
http://www.theheart2heartproject.org/map/

This has all info you might want. Ignore the ranking algorithm, as it doesn't work for places like YU (basically it sums up a score based on schools having eachfata point in a list).

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2019, 09:22:02 AM »
http://www.theheart2heartproject.org/map/

This has all info you might want. Ignore the ranking algorithm, as it doesn't work for places like YU (basically it sums up a score based on schools having eachfata point in a list).
That's a pretty awesome ranking though, I don't think many other ethnic groups would have a ranking like that...
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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2019, 10:19:33 PM »
Machon Lev is a great school - actually applied there, IIRC - I was admitted, but they wanted me to take a refresher math course and ulpan We're talking quite a few years ago). At the time, I had a serious discussion with my parents and family about it. At the end of the day, while my parents were supportive of my making Aliyah, they felt if I had an Israeli degree and decided to come back to the states i'd have a harder time finding a job. So I came back to the USA - unfortunately I'm still living here. I honestly think it would matter less in today's world.


It makes sense as learning the language is hard.  Others may disagree, but nowadays, maybe because of the whole "Startup Nation" phenomenon, I really don't think an Israeli degree is looked as at all below a US degree.  I know a number of doctors that have gone to Sackler (at Tel Aviv University) and the Technion and they got solid residencies.  I think in the sciences, an Israeli degree may even have some extra cache.

Something I think for parents to really consider now though is how many programs are fully in English (Bar Ilan and Machon Lev have some, IDC, etc) and how CRAZY lower tuition is there.  Maybe I'm more sensitive to this because I live OOT and the local state school isn't really an option (two Colorado schools are actually on that list of school above with kosher food, chabad, etc. but there are basically no frum kids there), and we are in this place where we currently pay full tuition for day school and any financial aid our kids would get at college would most likely be loans.  I think that Bar Ilan program is like 4k for annual tuition and I think private IDC is around 16k.  My friend's son is going to University of Maryland, where they really do have an active Orthodox community, but out of state tuition there is about 30k plus room & board (I think all in it's around 50k a year).  Saying nothing of my hashkafic and political issues of sending a child to that environment, it is just so prohibitively expensive.  YU is I think around 60k per year as well and although it's way less than others, even Touro is around 27k.   

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2019, 08:40:49 AM »

It makes sense as learning the language is hard.  Others may disagree, but nowadays, maybe because of the whole "Startup Nation" phenomenon, I really don't think an Israeli degree is looked as at all below a US degree.  I know a number of doctors that have gone to Sackler (at Tel Aviv University) and the Technion and they got solid residencies.  I think in the sciences, an Israeli degree may even have some extra cache.
My parents main objection to machon lev was that the degree you got was a 'B.Tech' and that it didn't have international accredation. (I remember in Hebrew it was referred to as a Handassahie as opposed to a mahandes degree). The Israeli Universities - Technion, Bar Ilan, Hebrew U, Weizmann, Haifa, BGU, TAU - all had international acceptance and accredation - they always have. IDC started up a few years later, and is currently considered along those lines. Ariel will probably ultimately be a well, but also has the hurdle of being over the green line.

In retrospect (and I can't ask them, since they've moved on from this world) I think that their bigger fear was me serving in the Army, and their hope was that if I was really serious about Aliya, if I moved after college and/or marriage, that I'd be exempt, or serve less and/or in a less dangerous capacity.



Something I think for parents to really consider now though is how many programs are fully in English (Bar Ilan and Machon Lev have some, IDC, etc) and how CRAZY lower tuition is there.  Maybe I'm more sensitive to this because I live OOT and the local state school isn't really an option (two Colorado schools are actually on that list of school above with kosher food, chabad, etc. but there are basically no frum kids there), and we are in this place where we currently pay full tuition for day school and any financial aid our kids would get at college would most likely be loans.  I think that Bar Ilan program is like 4k for annual tuition and I think private IDC is around 16k.  My friend's son is going to University of Maryland, where they really do have an active Orthodox community, but out of state tuition there is about 30k plus room & board (I think all in it's around 50k a year).  Saying nothing of my hashkafic and political issues of sending a child to that environment, it is just so prohibitively expensive.  YU is I think around 60k per year as well and although it's way less than others, even Touro is around 27k.

From what I am seeing, the costs are inline with what you're saying. And the experience is that, outside of YU and the various Touro options, there are probably between 1-2 dozen campuses that have solid frum life, and maybe another 20-30 with frum life and a supporting urban community nearby. (i.e. any college in Manhattan may not have the greatest presence on campus, but you have shuls and food walking distance from campus).

That being said, I am trying to sell my son on the idea of going to CUNY and living in an apartment in the city. Even if he doesn't get any money for school, and I have to rent an apartment for him (I'm thinking 15k/year with roommates), it would still be cheaper than a lot of these schools. He'd also be close enough to come to come visit if he wanted (assuming he does, of course)

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2019, 11:40:17 AM »
My parents main objection to machon lev was that the degree you got was a 'B.Tech' and that it didn't have international accredation. (I remember in Hebrew it was referred to as a Handassahie as opposed to a mahandes degree). The Israeli Universities - Technion, Bar Ilan, Hebrew U, Weizmann, Haifa, BGU, TAU - all had international acceptance and accredation - they always have. IDC started up a few years later, and is currently considered along those lines. Ariel will probably ultimately be a well, but also has the hurdle of being over the green line.

In retrospect (and I can't ask them, since they've moved on from this world) I think that their bigger fear was me serving in the Army, and their hope was that if I was really serious about Aliya, if I moved after college and/or marriage, that I'd be exempt, or serve less and/or in a less dangerous capacity.


From what I am seeing, the costs are inline with what you're saying. And the experience is that, outside of YU and the various Touro options, there are probably between 1-2 dozen campuses that have solid frum life, and maybe another 20-30 with frum life and a supporting urban community nearby. (i.e. any college in Manhattan may not have the greatest presence on campus, but you have shuls and food walking distance from campus).

That being said, I am trying to sell my son on the idea of going to CUNY and living in an apartment in the city. Even if he doesn't get any money for school, and I have to rent an apartment for him (I'm thinking 15k/year with roommates), it would still be cheaper than a lot of these schools. He'd also be close enough to come to come visit if he wanted (assuming he does, of course)
A fair number of people do city college and get an apartment in Washington Heights, which certainly gives an opportunity for a YU like environment. A few even manage to go to shiur regularly, though offically YU doesn't allow that.

Queens college is also popular.

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2019, 11:53:12 AM »
A fair number of people do city college and get an apartment in Washington Heights, which certainly gives an opportunity for a YU like environment. A few even manage to go to shiur regularly, though offically YU doesn't allow that.

Queens college is also popular.
City and Queens are in the same ballpark academically, but living in Queens will be cheaper than Washington Heights. If the quality of the school is the major factor, Baruch or Hunter are the top CUNY schools.

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2019, 12:07:05 PM »
CUNY is free or very nominal for NY residents?  That is a great option to just rent an apartment and study there or Queens college, if you are a resident.  We moved to Denver from LA and a lot of frum kids would go to Santa Monica College (probably the best community college in the state) that was so, so cheap and it had a program where if you had certain grades then you are automatically accepted to the UC system, so for way less, kids would go to SMC first and then transfer and get their degree from UCLA. My cousin even moved down from Seattle and got residency to do this.

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2019, 12:42:56 PM »
CUNY is free or very nominal for NY residents?  That is a great option to just rent an apartment and study there or Queens college, if you are a resident.  We moved to Denver from LA and a lot of frum kids would go to Santa Monica College (probably the best community college in the state) that was so, so cheap and it had a program where if you had certain grades then you are automatically accepted to the UC system, so for way less, kids would go to SMC first and then transfer and get their degree from UCLA. My cousin even moved down from Seattle and got residency to do this.
CUNY is relatively cheap even for OOS ($18k), and even cheaper for in-state (<$7k) - that's for all the CUNY 4yr schools.

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2019, 12:47:58 PM »
CUNY is relatively cheap even for OOS ($18k), and even cheaper for in-state (<$7k) - that's for all the CUNY 4yr schools.

That IS very reasonable from out of state (less than I'm paying for my Day School for my middle-school child)!

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2019, 01:46:16 PM »
CUNY is relatively cheap even for OOS ($18k), and even cheaper for in-state (<$7k) - that's for all the CUNY 4yr schools.
... plus, there are a lot of merit-based scholarships available. Macaulay, mentioned at the top of this thread, is one, but is also more difficult to get. Many of the schools though will give you a few grand towards tuition if your grades are high enough. Also CUNY's tuition is in-state, not in City. So if you live in NYS, but not in the five boroughs, you pay the same out.

CUNY is free or very nominal for NY residents?  That is a great option to just rent an apartment and study there or Queens college, if you are a resident.  We moved to Denver from LA and a lot of frum kids would go to Santa Monica College (probably the best community college in the state) that was so, so cheap and it had a program where if you had certain grades then you are automatically accepted to the UC system, so for way less, kids would go to SMC first and then transfer and get their degree from UCLA. My cousin even moved down from Seattle and got residency to do this.

I was once seated next to a young woman on a flight back from Israel. She was from Rockland County, NY. She said she went to Ramapo Community College for two years, then transferred to the ag school at cornell where she got her bachelors. Between the Ag School discount, and the two years at CC, she got a 4-year degree from cornell for the cost of about 1.5 years of tuition. After graduation she did a 6-month Masa Internship at an Israeli Bio-Tech, on her way to apply for medical schools.

A fair number of people do city college and get an apartment in Washington Heights, which certainly gives an opportunity for a YU like environment. A few even manage to go to shiur regularly, though offically YU doesn't allow that.

Queens college is also popular.

I didn't know about the CCNY people living in the heights. I do know a few kids from my shul who go to Hunter/Baruch/CCNY/FIT (FIT is a SUNY school), and live in the city. A lot of them live somewhere between Stern and NYU (20's-30's on the east side) since that's where they have the most options for food, shul, and a young chevra.


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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #57 on: March 18, 2019, 01:56:21 PM »
... plus, there are a lot of merit-based scholarships available. Macaulay, mentioned at the top of this thread, is one, but is also more difficult to get. Many of the schools though will give you a few grand towards tuition if your grades are high enough. Also CUNY's tuition is in-state, not in City. So if you live in NYS, but not in the five boroughs, you pay the same out.

I was once seated next to a young woman on a flight back from Israel. She was from Rockland County, NY. She said she went to Ramapo Community College for two years, then transferred to the ag school at cornell where she got her bachelors. Between the Ag School discount, and the two years at CC, she got a 4-year degree from cornell for the cost of about 1.5 years of tuition. After graduation she did a 6-month Masa Internship at an Israeli Bio-Tech, on her way to apply for medical schools.

I didn't know about the CCNY people living in the heights. I do know a few kids from my shul who go to Hunter/Baruch/CCNY/FIT (FIT is a SUNY school), and live in the city. A lot of them live somewhere between Stern and NYU (20's-30's on the east side) since that's where they have the most options for food, shul, and a young chevra.
The best frum community in NYC is the heights. Uws is much more modern, and the village has very few frum singles all together - mostly just the NYU students.

Plus in the heights, you can get your own room for 600-1000. In most other places, rooms start at 1500.

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #58 on: March 18, 2019, 02:28:22 PM »
CUNY is relatively cheap even for OOS ($18k), and even cheaper for in-state (<$7k) - that's for all the CUNY 4yr schools.
If you qualify:
"We've made college tuition-free for middle class New Yorkers.

With the passage of the FY 2018 State Budget, New York is now home to the nation's first accessible college program - The Excelsior Scholarship.

Under this groundbreaking program, more than 940,000 middle-class families and individuals making up to $125,000 per year will qualify to attend college tuition-free at all CUNY and SUNY two- and four-year colleges in New York State. The new program begins in the fall of 2017 and will be phased in over three years.

In order to apply, students must:

- Be residents of New York State
- Attend a SUNY or CUNY two- or four-year degree program
- Take 30 credits per calendar year (including January and Summer sessions)
- Plan to live and work in New York following graduation for the length of time they participate in the scholarship program"

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Re: Orthodox College Life Guide?
« Reply #59 on: March 18, 2019, 02:37:53 PM »
If you qualify:
"We've made college tuition-free for middle class New Yorkers.

With the passage of the FY 2018 State Budget, New York is now home to the nation's first accessible college program - The Excelsior Scholarship.

Under this groundbreaking program, more than 940,000 middle-class families and individuals making up to $125,000 per year will qualify to attend college tuition-free at all CUNY and SUNY two- and four-year colleges in New York State. The new program begins in the fall of 2017 and will be phased in over three years.

In order to apply, students must:

- Be residents of New York State
- Attend a SUNY or CUNY two- or four-year degree program
- Take 30 credits per calendar year (including January and Summer sessions)
- Plan to live and work in New York following graduation for the length of time they participate in the scholarship program"

That's interesting.  Do they have a mechanism to track and penalize people that move out of NY. Or do they have exceptions? Let's say you fully instead to stay for 4 years afterward but get married and want to go to Israel for a year or two to learn?  I had a friend who purposely went to Law school at NYU (over other Ivy's) because of their loan forgiveness program if you worked at a non-profit.  He then worked at a non-profit the required number of years because even earning way less it was still way cheaper than getting a high powered job  and having to pay back all the loans.