Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 73494 times)

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #220 on: March 12, 2019, 01:56:30 PM »
Yes this is a huge American problem. In Europe, Yeshivah doesn't begin until a boy is 16 or 17, equivalent of 11th or 12th grade. Until then they stay in Grammar school and get a proper education. Americans stick 13-14 year olds in Mesivta's which is a disaster.
So they don't start learning until age 16?

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #221 on: March 12, 2019, 02:18:36 PM »
So they don't start learning until age 16?

Not full time. They have Kodesh for 4 hours max, 50/50 with "chol". They all go for GCSE's and A Levels, or the continental equivalent.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #222 on: March 12, 2019, 02:26:13 PM »
Not full time. They have Kodesh for 4 hours max, 50/50 with "chol". They all go for GCSE's and A Levels, or the continental equivalent.
Similar to many mesivtas in the US with 2-3 hours secular studies in the afternoon

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #223 on: March 12, 2019, 02:29:38 PM »
Not full time. They have Kodesh for 4 hours max, 50/50 with "chol". They all go for GCSE's and A Levels, or the continental equivalent.

Wow. What a waste of precious time during the most important formative years.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline avromie7

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #224 on: March 12, 2019, 02:30:59 PM »
Wow. What a waste of precious time during the most important formative years.
That's where this comes in
When talking about why his mesivta has english, R' Reuven Feinstein says it's better to learn english than to learn to waste time.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #225 on: March 12, 2019, 02:37:43 PM »
That's where this comes in
When talking about why his mesivta has english, R' Reuven Feinstein says it's better to learn english than to learn to waste time.

That is a dangerous statement. If something is broken, do you endeavor to fix it or do you fill the gap with something that might have other negative effects?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #226 on: March 12, 2019, 02:38:19 PM »
Wow. What a waste of precious time during the most important formative years.
I agree that 4 hours is low but the problem is that nowadays many kids just can't sit and learn for that long.
there's a limit to the productivity you're going to get when you just force kids to learn the entire day. For many people, that time would be better spend doing something else even if in the perfect world they would gain more from learning during that time.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #227 on: March 12, 2019, 02:39:52 PM »
Similar to many mesivtas in the US with 2-3 hours secular studies in the afternoon

Many, but not all. Most Tri State Area mesivats are like in Israel, no secular. In Europe, no such thing. And its min 4 hours. And they are taught by professionals. And GCSE's A Levels are miles ahead of Regents.

(But that fine, because American kids will go on to College where they will in-debt themselves forever - and/or have parents bribe to get them in - while in Europe, this too is free/very cheap)

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #228 on: March 12, 2019, 02:42:01 PM »
I agree that 4 hours is low but the problem is that nowadays many kids just can't sit and learn for that long.
there's a limit to the productivity you're going to get when you just force kids to learn the entire day. For many people, that time would be better spend doing something else even if in the perfect world they would gain more from learning during that time.

4 hours kodesh of learning a day for a 13-14 year old is not "low".

And when they move on to Yeshiva at 16-17 they begin the full whack, when most can handle it.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #229 on: March 12, 2019, 02:44:18 PM »
Many, but not all. Most Tri State Area mesivats are like in Israel, no secular. In Europe, no such thing. And its min 4 hours. And they are taught by professionals. And GCSE's A Levels are miles ahead of Regents.

(But that fine, because American kids will go on to College where they will in-debt themselves forever - and/or have parents bribe to get them in - while in Europe, this too is free/very cheap)
Not necessarily most. Depends on the type eg chasidish/litvish etc

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #230 on: March 12, 2019, 02:44:51 PM »
I agree that 4 hours is low but the problem is that nowadays many kids just can't sit and learn for that long.
there's a limit to the productivity you're going to get when you just force kids to learn the entire day. For many people, that time would be better spend doing something else even if in the perfect world they would gain more from learning during that time.
If kids can't learn for longer, the method of teaching should be reexamined and reassessed. I recall when I was in Yeshiva I was asked to learn Gemara with one of the staff's children. For the first few sessions, it was real torture, the kid kept on looking at the watch, and couldn't wait for the time to be over, and was clearly disinterested. I then managed to figure out a way to bring across the Gemara in an animated and engaging method. The kid didn't look at the watch even one time, and learned more in one session than he did during all other sessions combined.

And if one cannot figure out how to teach in a way that the kids will want to sit and be engaged untill the very last moment, then turn to

On a separate note, and somewhat tying into language skills, I proposed to a few Menahalim that a curriculum of Jewish Stories (preferably in Hebrew/Yiddish, but obviously it depends on the school) be incorporated into the schedule. The main benefit of the stories is to increase אהבת השם, אהבת התורה and יראת שמים, but a side benefit would be increased vocabulary and language skills.

You can never have too much or regret time spent on סיפורי חז"ל, סיפורי צדיקים, סיפורי חסידים, etc.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #231 on: March 12, 2019, 02:46:01 PM »
Not necessarily most. Depends on the type eg chasidish/litvish etc

Necessarily. In Lakewood, where a good 50% of Mesivta age boys in the TSA reside, it's the norm. Crazy!

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #232 on: March 12, 2019, 02:46:57 PM »
Necessarily. In Lakewood, where a good 50% of Mesivta age boys in the TSA reside, it's the norm. Crazy!
Not saying you're wrong, but where are you getting numbers from?

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #233 on: March 12, 2019, 02:49:09 PM »
If kids can't learn for longer, the method of teaching should be reexamined and reassessed. I recall when I was in Yeshiva I was asked to learn Gemara with one of the staff's children. For the first few sessions, it was real torture, the kid kept on looking at the watch, and couldn't wait for the time to be over, and was clearly disinterested. I then managed to figure out a way to bring across the Gemara in an animated and engaging method. The kid didn't look at the watch even one time, and learned more in one session than he did during all other sessions combined.

And if one cannot figure out how to teach in a way that the kids will want to sit and be engaged untill the very last moment, then turn to

You can never have too much or regret time spent on סיפורי חז"ל, סיפורי צדיקים, סיפורי חסידים, etc.

I agree 100% but most 13-14 year old boys are just not capable. Same way we understand they need an hour of basketball a day. Also, they really look forward to going to "Yeshivah" and when they get there they take it 100% serious, without any chol and limited sport. Based on my observations from within both systems over the last decade.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #234 on: March 12, 2019, 02:49:44 PM »
If kids can't learn for longer, the method of teaching should be reexamined and reassessed. I recall when I was in Yeshiva I was asked to learn Gemara with one of the staff's children. For the first few sessions, it was real torture, the kid kept on looking at the watch, and couldn't wait for the time to be over, and was clearly disinterested. I then managed to figure out a way to bring across the Gemara in an animated and engaging method. The kid didn't look at the watch even one time, and learned more in one session than he did during all other sessions combined.

And if one cannot figure out how to teach in a way that the kids will want to sit and be engaged untill the very last moment, then turn to

You can never have too much or regret time spent on סיפורי חז"ל, סיפורי צדיקים, סיפורי חסידים, etc.
Wow, so you've finally hit on the real problem which is that most rabbeim are bad, good luck fixing that one.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #235 on: March 12, 2019, 02:49:55 PM »
Not saying you're wrong, but where are you getting numbers from?

Keen observation, Aguda reports, charidy campaigns, familial samples etc etc etc

Offline avromie7

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #236 on: March 12, 2019, 02:54:20 PM »




That is a dangerous statement. If something is broken, do you endeavor to fix it or do you fill the gap with something that might have other negative effects?

What's broken about children being children? It's not normal for a 9th grader to be able to sit and learn all day.

What's the issue with learning math, English, and science?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #237 on: March 12, 2019, 03:01:45 PM »

What's broken about children being children? It's not normal for a 9th grader to be able to sit and learn all day.

What's the issue with learning math, English, and science?
+1000
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline yelped

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #238 on: March 12, 2019, 09:42:54 PM »

What's broken about children being children? It's not normal for a 9th grader to be able to sit and learn all day.

What's the issue with learning math, English, and science?
No one addressed that question in this thread. I posted similarly above, along with @mmgfarb. Just busy with semantics.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #239 on: March 12, 2019, 10:38:09 PM »

What's broken about children being children? It's not normal for a 9th grader to be able to sit and learn all day.

No one said that children being children is "broken", but if one is complaining about "learning to waste time", that sounds like a problem that needs fixing.

And how is
Quote
What's the issue with learning math, English, and science?
a solution?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan