Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 21433 times)

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #255 on: March 14, 2019, 02:19:07 AM »
I actually totally agree with you that our first and foremost goal should be imparting in our children that we should always be working to be an Eved HaShem. I also agree that I donít think teaching financial literacy will help prevent frum Jews from involving themselves in the types of financial schemes that started this thread (I still donít feel comfortable calling them scams).  I think the bigger issue is that we donít have clear and loud statements in our schools and community about how easy it is to give in to your weaknesses and human fallibilities surrounding financial issues. I think that if frum institutions addressed financial weakness in the same way they teach young people to stay far away from other temptations (like they teach about tznius and Yichud, explicitly explaining why these things are so important), people would fully understand the dangers.  Even now, people only seem scandalized and so sad for the money lost by so many good people, not at all a discussion about why the behavior is so wrong and so insidious to our spiritual well being. I donít not participate in ďeasy moneyĒ schemes because I could lose money but because it would denigrate me as a person and bring me down the wrong path. Just like Torah leaders teach that you donít not have an affair (or do any number of things to bring you to that point) because it could end badly for your marriage but because it is wrong and bad for the person doing it, they could address and teach about financial weakness in the same way.
The only problem with this is that there wasn't anything wrong with what the victims were doing.
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Offline mercaz1

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #256 on: March 14, 2019, 10:39:17 AM »
The only problem with this is that there wasn't anything wrong with what the victims were doing.

and a lot of double negatives

Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #257 on: March 14, 2019, 11:28:37 AM »
The only problem with this is that there wasn't anything wrong with what the victims were doing.
Then why were we hearing about them being afraid of criminal prosecution?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #258 on: March 14, 2019, 12:14:26 PM »
Then why were we hearing about them being afraid of criminal prosecution?
I meant halachically, although if it was illegal than I guess that would be a halachic problem as well. My point was that it's easy to say you wouldn't do anything that's "easy money" but it's hard to tell people not to do something that isn't necessarily problematic halachically just because you think it's wrong on a "hashkafic" level because you think a person should work for his money, especially if it allows someone to stay in learning for longer.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #259 on: March 14, 2019, 12:41:07 PM »
I meant halachically, although if it was illegal than I guess that would be a halachic problem as well. My point was that it's easy to say you wouldn't do anything that's "easy money" but it's hard to tell people not to do something that isn't necessarily problematic halachically just because you think it's wrong on a "hashkafic" level because you think a person should work for his money, especially if it allows someone to stay in learning for longer.
Probably more often than not, "easy money" will cause people to leave learning to dig themselves out of the hole they dug themselves into.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #260 on: March 14, 2019, 01:30:32 PM »
Probably more often than not, "easy money" will cause people to leave learning to dig themselves out of the hole they dug themselves into.
Could be but it's a hard line to say what people should do and what they shouldn't, it's not as simple as saying "don't do anything that I deem hashkafically wrong"
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Offline Denverite

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #261 on: March 14, 2019, 02:18:53 PM »
Could be but it's a hard line to say what people should do and what they shouldn't, it's not as simple as saying "don't do anything that I deem hashkafically wrong"

I meant halachically, although if it was illegal than I guess that would be a halachic problem as well. My point was that it's easy to say you wouldn't do anything that's "easy money" but it's hard to tell people not to do something that isn't necessarily problematic halachically just because you think it's wrong on a "hashkafic" level because you think a person should work for his money, especially if it allows someone to stay in learning for longer.

I totally get what you are saying but I don't think it's just hashkafa.  They were deceiving the credit card companies (again, I know we can go all around all day that they didn't understand the card T&C's) but I think it does go back to what someone said on the PSA thread about more of a willful denial and choosing not to look closely because they so badly wanted the money.  How about saying, just like we teach to not only be honest but to stay far away from sheker that we could teach in schools specifically what that means with in regards to financial dealings.

Also, I have asked in multiple threads and not one person posted the actual Psak they got from a rav saying this was ok.  I'd actually love to understand how this swiping could be halachically ok. It seems most people just didn't ask, hoped it was ok and chose to ignore any little nagging worries they had about any downsides; financial, halachic or otherwise.