Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 21487 times)

Offline mendyt

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2019, 10:16:24 AM »

Offline Dan

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2019, 10:20:57 AM »
I would also include a course in the history of vaccine development and rudimentary statistics (p-values etc.)
so they are educated enough to avoid the other major scam in the jewish world pro-plague literature and “studies”. ( In the interest of totally taking this thread OT 😀)
ftfy ;)
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Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2019, 11:01:43 AM »
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Dan

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2019, 11:11:02 AM »
I respectfully disagree. Its important but it doesn't belong in a yeshiva. A yeshiva isn't business school.

You'll ask me so why is it worse than math science...? I'll answer that those don't take away from the goal of a frum person. They're there for various reasons. To give more structure to the day of a child. To make the child sharper. And possibly also to qualify for government funding.

That's just my feelings about it.

ETA: Just to clarify a little. I feel like the math, science... isn't being taught to learn it. It's being taught for the reasons stated above. On the other hand if you're teaching financial literacy it's being taught for itself. Which I think is a problem.
-1K.
Many yeshvas don't teach math or science either. But it's a crime that basic financial literacy isn't taught.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2019, 11:21:30 AM »
"Math" as an integral part of Torah is definitely not an antithesis to being a frum Jew. תנאים, אמוראים, ראשונים and אחרונים all knew "math". All you need to do is open up a Chumash with Rashi, Mishnayos and Gemara to see that. The question is whether the knowledge was acquired as part of learning Torah, or as a separate curriculum.

To that end, my SIL developed a curriculum that teaches the "math" in Torah (not sure if it goes to 6th or 8th grade) called הייליקע נומערן. Upon completion of the curriculum students should be able to master math to a level that will allow them to create a Jewish calendar (based on calculations explained by the Rambam in הלכות קידוש החודש).
Just to clarify that SIL in this quoted post refers to Sister-in-law.

I don't remember that when I was there
I heard about it from my SIL (son-in-law) who was there, though it might have not been very comprehensive, rather superficial.



Several years ago I took a course for people who want to go into Chinuch (wasn't planning to enter the field, but wanted to attend the course for personal enrichment). In one of the classes, the instructor was presenting a certain method in learning Mishnayos. He gave a challenge question on the Mishna in B.M. 2:7 (דבר שעושה ואוכל, יעשה ויאכל ודבר שאין עושה ואוכל, ימכר, שנאמר (דברים, כב) והשבותו לו, ראה היאך תשיבנו לו). The other participants (mostly newlyweds) in the class, missed the point of assets and liabilities, and therefore took longer to grasp the point that was being made.

My point in bringing this story is that it's not financial literacy classes that are needed, but rather proper study of Torah material. If anyone would really care to teach Chumash and Minshnayos making sure that every word and concept is properly understood, that would go a very long way in creating proper financial literacy, without having a dedicated course for that topic.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 01:20:31 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2019, 11:23:55 AM »
B"H, my high school taught economics, and smartly past quickly over the not necessary information (like how to buy stocks) and spent much longer on teaching us the basic things we needed to know for life. Such as how to write a check, how to balance your finances. Also if you get Youth Corp in NYS you are supposed to take a day course in financial literacy but unfortunately...
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Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2019, 11:37:42 AM »
"Math" as an integral part of Torah is definitely not an antithesis to being a frum Jew. תנאים, אמוראים, ראשונים and אחרונים all knew "math". All you need to do is open up a Chumash with Rashi, Mishnayos and Gemara to see that. The question is whether the knowledge was acquired as part of learning Torah, or as a separate curriculum.

To that end, my SIL developed a curriculum that teaches the "math" in Torah (not sure if it goes to 6th or 8th grade) called הייליקע נומערן. Upon completion of the curriculum students should be able to master math to a level that will allow them to create a Jewish calendar (based on calculations explained by the Rambam in הלכות קידוש החודש).

Such a curriculum would be just right. There is no need for advanced trigonometry etc. but an understanding of geometry and algebra goes a long way.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2019, 11:58:48 AM »
Such a curriculum would be just right. There is no need for advanced trigonometry etc. but an understanding of geometry and algebra goes a long way.
If you know of any school that wants to incorporate the curriculum, PM me and we'll make the connection. The beauty of it IMHO is that it's pure לימודי קודש, just emphasizing the skills that unfortunately some melamdim skip (I wish there would be a similar one for דקדוק). IINM it's available in English, Yiddish and Hebrew.

IIRC the calculations the Rambam brings in order to create a calendar require addition, multiplication, division and modulo operations. Nothing more complicated than that. ידיעת זמן הראיה, קשת הראיה, etc. are trigonometrical calculations which the Rambam simplifies into calculations using the previously mentioned operations and a lookup table of values he provides, in order to reach close enough approximations - that's not part of the curriculum my SIL created.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yonah

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2019, 12:00:29 PM »
I think financial literacy and math/science are two very different things.  My kids yeshiva's have a full math and science curriculum, but I believe that only their high school offers a financial literacy class, and that itself is an elective, that very few students take, and something that I wish that they would put more emphasis on.

Putting aside my feelings about secular subjects in Yeshivas for a moment - financial literacy isn't in the same boat. Regardless if your work remains in the bais medrash, or ultimately elsewhere, you still need to know understand things like budgeting, insurance, mortgages, etc.

While a poster above suggested that some people were teaching this as part of Chosson/Kalah classes - which is a noble goal, I think it needs to be taught sooner. So that when a young couple starts out, they understand how to set themselves up for success (especially if mom and dad aren't supporting them).


Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2019, 12:48:10 PM »
My point in bringing this story is that it's not financial literacy classes that are needed, but rather proper study of Torah material. If anyone would really care to teach Chumash and Minshnayos making sure that every word and concept is properly understood, that would go a very long way in creating proper financial literacy, without having a dedicated course for that topic.
It is asinine to believe that the average person can learn everything they need to know about modern financial literacy from "proper" limud torah.
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Offline S209

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Re: Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2019, 12:52:05 PM »
It is asinine to believe that the average person can learn everything they need to know about modern financial literacy from "proper" limud torah.
-613

Hafach ba vehafach ba dekula va

The Gemara brings countless lessons in all areas of finance, responsibility, prudence and caution.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 12:57:20 PM by S209 »
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2019, 12:59:57 PM »
It is asinine to believe that the average person can learn everything they need to know about modern financial literacy from "proper" limud torah.

Here's a challenge:

Take the following line out of the mishna: ודבר שאין עושה ואוכל, ימכר, שנאמר (דברים, כב) והשבותו לו, ראה היאך תשיבנו לו and ask the average person (whoever that may be) what ראה היאך תשיבנו לו means here. Let us know the results. We can then proceed to the next part of the Mishna of מה יהא בדמים?

Someone who can properly explain those concepts, has a very strong foundation for modern financial literacy - probably much more than most high school graduates. (And will probably be a step ahead of the class at Accounting 101)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 01:19:51 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2019, 01:05:07 PM »
Currency 101: from Avios to bitcoin 😂

ALOL.

And Skypesos in between....
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 01:20:01 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2019, 02:07:57 PM »
-613

Hafach ba vehafach ba dekula va

The Gemara brings countless lessons in all areas of finance, responsibility, prudence and caution.

you missed his point

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2019, 02:18:46 PM »
It is asinine to believe that the average person can learn everything they need to know about modern financial literacy from "proper" limud torah.
Depends what you call proper.