Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 24652 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2019, 04:19:45 PM »
Same. Even just to read Rambam/Tur/Shulchan Aruch. Not necessarily Halacha limysah but at least ikur rishonim and Shchan Aruch. Wouldnt even take that compared to long shtikel of Rav Chaim or Rav BB.
FTR, R Meir Stern tells those who ask him to go through Tur/Bais Yosef after each sugyo
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Offline Denverite

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2019, 04:22:13 PM »
Back to @ExGingi's original question about common sense, how about framing it that Yeshivot and schools try to explicitly teach about thinking of the consequences of our actions relating to finance (in general and using financial examples).

Couldn't you use Torah sources to really go through examples step by step and their practical applications (almost like case studies in MBA programs)?  Do you think the problem is financial literacy or not being to really understand the long term consequences of their actions?  Or maybe its both...

Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2019, 04:35:22 PM »
That wasn't really my point
You mean you had a point?
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Online ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2019, 04:51:58 PM »
Pet peeve of mine. After spending a few weeks on a sugyo and someone asks you something about a practical application of it you better be able to say something more than you think that according to the way you clered in the second tzad of R' Boruch Ber the rashba might hold a certain way in his kashya.

You call that a pet peeve. I almost puked reading that. Anyone responding like that didn't really learn (i.e. have the Torah teach him) anything.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2019, 04:53:38 PM »
You mean you had a point?
I had quoted a post that I guess got deleted before I posted, Idk what happened.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2019, 04:59:58 PM »
You call that a pet peeve. I almost puked reading that. Anyone responding like that didn't really learn (i.e. have the Torah teach him) anything.
That was an extreme exaggeration.
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Online ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2019, 05:05:59 PM »
That was an extreme exaggeration.

Obviously. But your point was understood, and my statement stands, that anyone responding like that when asked about a practical application, needs to start learning.

It's actually a pet peeve of my FIL who tries to translate Chassidus terms into something more practical (linguistically) and relatable, rather than just use the terms brought down in the sources, to make sure there's an actual understanding.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yonah

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2019, 05:34:49 PM »
Reading the response to this thread has made me think about "Jewish" education in general (in quotes for a reason).

Obviously, I realize there is a wide swath of opinions as to what a proper chinuch entails.

While I live a modern lifestyle, and send my kids to an MO yeshiva (co-ed, more or less evenly split time between Limudei Kodesh and Chol), I grew up in a slightly more yeshivish environment (single-gender schools, most of the day focused on Limudei Kodesh, and a couple of hours devoted to limudei chol - for example, our middle school schedule was LK 9-3 6 days a week, and Chol 3-5:30 M-Th).

While my wife and I (for a myriad of reasons) have chosen something different for our family, I don't think that my education was inadequate. I also think that the expectation in those days (20-30 years ago) was that most bochurim would earn their parnasa outside of the walls of the Bais Medrash. While many of my friends went the Toraso Omanaso route, most went to college (albeit after several years of Post-HS yeshiva learning and/or Kollel).  But that being said, our limudei chol was something that our yeshiva took seriously. All of our teachers were State Certified, and many of the middle school teachers were actually teaching the same curriculum in public or catholic schools in the morning hours.

But based on what I am hearing here - it seems that many of you would consider that type of education to be treif! Is that really the case? Is that what happens in places like Monsey and Lakewood? (I am not making fun, just trying to learn more)


Online ExGingi

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2019, 05:46:57 PM »
But based on what I am hearing here - it seems that many of you would consider that type of education to be treif! Is that really the case? Is that what happens in places like Monsey and Lakewood? (I am not making fun, just trying to learn more)

FWIU I don't believe anyone is as extreme about this as Lubavitch.

Here are a links that has some pertinent quotes: http://chabadpedia.co.il/images/1/1b/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%98%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%93%D7%A9.pdf

And OTOH, here's a link from a Chabad Yeshiva that does include general studies: http://mesivtamonsey.org/general-studies/
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2019, 05:59:38 PM »
I had quoted a post that I guess got deleted before I posted, Idk what happened.

I deleted a post that I made quickly trying to be cute, but upon reading the thread further I saw that a bunch of people made similar comments. That might be it.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2019, 07:01:23 PM »
I deleted a post that I made quickly trying to be cute, but upon reading the thread further I saw that a bunch of people made similar comments. That might be it.
Yea, that was it.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Yonah

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #101 on: March 07, 2019, 08:47:01 AM »
FWIU I don't believe anyone is as extreme about this as Lubavitch.

Here are a links that has some pertinent quotes: http://chabadpedia.co.il/images/1/1b/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%98%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%93%D7%A9.pdf

And OTOH, here's a link from a Chabad Yeshiva that does include general studies: http://mesivtamonsey.org/general-studies/

Didn't read the whole megillah. I find it interesting, that Chabad, of all kehilot, are the ones that are that extreme. For starters, the Rebbe himself went to several colleges in Berlin and Paris, and even worked for the US Navy during WWII (IIRC). I have met many shluchim, especially those that are associated with college campuses, and they're well read and articulate (yes, I know that doesn't equate to a college degree, but still requires them to learn/read some divrei chol).


Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2019, 10:19:47 AM »
FTR, R Meir Stern tells those who ask him to go through Tur/Bais Yosef after each sugyo

Interesting. I also think that bochurim will feel better about their learning if they can come out with the basic halacha after all the chakiros and svaras. Even if someone who could not follow the whole sugya and the raid, should be able to come out with a clarity in who says what in the rishonim and to know the halacha is in summary. This is also where I think having tests in yeshivas can also be very beneficial, even in iyun.

Offline aygart

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2019, 11:01:34 AM »
Interesting. I also think that bochurim will feel better about their learning if they can come out with the basic halacha after all the chakiros and svaras. Even if someone who could not follow the whole sugya and the raid, should be able to come out with a clarity in who says what in the rishonim and to know the halacha is in summary. This is also where I think having tests in yeshivas can also be very beneficial, even in iyun.
1. I know that he says this because he said it to me.
2. I would FTFY to "Even if someone who follows the whole sugya and the raid, should be able to come out with a clarity...." (not to say that they don't but rather that it becomes more difficult to keep track of the basic shitos once you go through all the raid and it is for that reason that he says to go back to the tur BY to put it all back together again.)
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Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #104 on: March 08, 2019, 12:03:01 AM »
1. I know that he says this because he said it to me.
2. I would FTFY to "Even if someone who follows the whole sugya and the raid, should be able to come out with a clarity...." (not to say that they don't but rather that it becomes more difficult to keep track of the basic shitos once you go through all the raid and it is for that reason that he says to go back to the tur BY to put it all back together again.)

I dont disagree but I was more addressing the point that those who dont always have a clarity in the raid and chakiros in a shiur will feel unproductive because then its even more apparent how little he came out with in the sugya by not even being able to draw out the conclusions. Everyone should be able to understand the gemara and how the rishonim/halacha derrive the laws and conclusions of the sugya regardless of how well he understands the raid that lead up to it.