Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 72555 times)

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #80 on: March 06, 2019, 03:45:32 PM »
To be clear though, my kids do not learn this in yeshiva. They learn it at home very regularly. I would be concerned over them teaching it in yeshiva for a number of reasons. Foremost among them that I would have no way of knowing if the teacher is adequately literate.
Either way, part of financial literacy is understanding that people need likes to feed their kids.
I agree, I think it's much better to teach your kids about fiscal responsibility than to rely on someone else. I wasn't even the one advocating for a course to be added to yeshiva curriculum per se, I was mainly trying to understand why so many people seem to have such an aversion to the idea of it at all and why people have the notion that it can or should be gleaned from limud torah alone.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #81 on: March 06, 2019, 03:45:53 PM »
That's why someone has to create an approved financial literacy course for yeshivas. Maybe a DD Agudah course :)
Or DDS in every school.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #82 on: March 06, 2019, 03:46:57 PM »
Or DDS in every school.
Just have to make a text book, then no need for Dan to do it.

Actually been wanting to do this for a while now.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #83 on: March 06, 2019, 03:48:06 PM »
Just have to make a text book, then no need for Dan to do it.

Actually been wanting to do this for a while now.
Great business idea, textbook companies make bank.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #84 on: March 06, 2019, 03:48:23 PM »
That's why someone has to create an approved financial literacy course for yeshivas. Maybe a DD Agudah course :)
Who will approve it? What will their agenda be?
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2019, 03:49:24 PM »
Who will approve it? What will their agenda be?
The Agudah comes to mind, I don't know much about rabbinic approvals though.

The agenda is to be torah true in a short and simple course to teach financial literacy and responsibility.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2019, 03:52:28 PM »
The Agudah comes to mind, I don't know much about rabbinic approvals though.

The agenda is to be torah true in a short and simple course to teach financial literacy and responsibility.

Because everyone just loves the Aguda's agendas.
I didn't ask what the agenda should be but rather what the agenda of the ones making the course would be.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2019, 04:01:54 PM »
That doesn't matter, clearly it hadn't helped has it?

Well, they might have simply not learned it properly.

I distinguish between cannot and are not. It is unlikely that a typical high school kid will get enough from his Torah studies alone. Bringing the abstract to a practical discussion (per @mmgfarb ) that would be a reason to make sure that they do learn it on some level.
It's a huge problem if people "learn" Gemara and totally miss the practical application of it.

Using Torah as a springboard to teach it is a questionable practice since it is somewhat against רבי צדוק אומר, אל תעשם עטרה להתגדל בהם, ולא קרדום לחפור בהם
Not advocating using it as a springboard to teach anything, but when you have a decent command of Aramaic due to your Torah studies and doing שנים מקרא ואחד תרגום, no one would say that you used Torah as a springboard, but you did acquire the knowledge.

If one learns Torah properly, a lot of practical knowledge will be gained, but that's not the purpose of learning.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2019, 04:07:20 PM »
Well, they might have simply not learned it properly.
It's a huge problem if people "learn" Gemara and totally miss the practical application of it.


Pet peeve of mine. After spending a few weeks on a sugyo and someone asks you something about a practical application of it you better be able to say something more than you think that according to the way you clered in the second tzad of R' Boruch Ber the rashba might hold a certain way in his kashya.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2019, 04:14:28 PM »
Pet peeve of mine. After spending a few weeks on a sugyo and someone asks you something about a practical application of it you better be able to say something more than you think that according to the way you clered in the second tzad of R' Boruch Ber the rashba might hold a certain way in his kashya.

Same. Even just to read Rambam/Tur/Shulchan Aruch. Not necessarily Halacha limysah but at least ikur rishonim and Shchan Aruch. Wouldnt even take that compared to long shtikel of Rav Chaim or Rav BB.

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2019, 04:19:45 PM »
Same. Even just to read Rambam/Tur/Shulchan Aruch. Not necessarily Halacha limysah but at least ikur rishonim and Shchan Aruch. Wouldnt even take that compared to long shtikel of Rav Chaim or Rav BB.
FTR, R Meir Stern tells those who ask him to go through Tur/Bais Yosef after each sugyo
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Offline Denverite

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2019, 04:22:13 PM »
Back to @ExGingi's original question about common sense, how about framing it that Yeshivot and schools try to explicitly teach about thinking of the consequences of our actions relating to finance (in general and using financial examples).

Couldn't you use Torah sources to really go through examples step by step and their practical applications (almost like case studies in MBA programs)?  Do you think the problem is financial literacy or not being to really understand the long term consequences of their actions?  Or maybe its both...

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2019, 04:35:22 PM »
That wasn't really my point
You mean you had a point?
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2019, 04:51:58 PM »
Pet peeve of mine. After spending a few weeks on a sugyo and someone asks you something about a practical application of it you better be able to say something more than you think that according to the way you clered in the second tzad of R' Boruch Ber the rashba might hold a certain way in his kashya.

You call that a pet peeve. I almost puked reading that. Anyone responding like that didn't really learn (i.e. have the Torah teach him) anything.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2019, 04:53:38 PM »
You mean you had a point?
I had quoted a post that I guess got deleted before I posted, Idk what happened.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2019, 04:59:58 PM »
You call that a pet peeve. I almost puked reading that. Anyone responding like that didn't really learn (i.e. have the Torah teach him) anything.
That was an extreme exaggeration.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2019, 05:05:59 PM »
That was an extreme exaggeration.

Obviously. But your point was understood, and my statement stands, that anyone responding like that when asked about a practical application, needs to start learning.

It's actually a pet peeve of my FIL who tries to translate Chassidus terms into something more practical (linguistically) and relatable, rather than just use the terms brought down in the sources, to make sure there's an actual understanding.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2019, 05:34:49 PM »
Reading the response to this thread has made me think about "Jewish" education in general (in quotes for a reason).

Obviously, I realize there is a wide swath of opinions as to what a proper chinuch entails.

While I live a modern lifestyle, and send my kids to an MO yeshiva (co-ed, more or less evenly split time between Limudei Kodesh and Chol), I grew up in a slightly more yeshivish environment (single-gender schools, most of the day focused on Limudei Kodesh, and a couple of hours devoted to limudei chol - for example, our middle school schedule was LK 9-3 6 days a week, and Chol 3-5:30 M-Th).

While my wife and I (for a myriad of reasons) have chosen something different for our family, I don't think that my education was inadequate. I also think that the expectation in those days (20-30 years ago) was that most bochurim would earn their parnasa outside of the walls of the Bais Medrash. While many of my friends went the Toraso Omanaso route, most went to college (albeit after several years of Post-HS yeshiva learning and/or Kollel).  But that being said, our limudei chol was something that our yeshiva took seriously. All of our teachers were State Certified, and many of the middle school teachers were actually teaching the same curriculum in public or catholic schools in the morning hours.

But based on what I am hearing here - it seems that many of you would consider that type of education to be treif! Is that really the case? Is that what happens in places like Monsey and Lakewood? (I am not making fun, just trying to learn more)


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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #98 on: March 06, 2019, 05:46:57 PM »
But based on what I am hearing here - it seems that many of you would consider that type of education to be treif! Is that really the case? Is that what happens in places like Monsey and Lakewood? (I am not making fun, just trying to learn more)

FWIU I don't believe anyone is as extreme about this as Lubavitch.

Here are a links that has some pertinent quotes: http://chabadpedia.co.il/images/1/1b/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9A_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%98%D7%94%D7%A8%D7%AA_%D7%94%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%93%D7%A9.pdf

And OTOH, here's a link from a Chabad Yeshiva that does include general studies: http://mesivtamonsey.org/general-studies/
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2019, 05:59:38 PM »
I had quoted a post that I guess got deleted before I posted, Idk what happened.

I deleted a post that I made quickly trying to be cute, but upon reading the thread further I saw that a bunch of people made similar comments. That might be it.