Author Topic: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas  (Read 72543 times)

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #180 on: March 10, 2019, 11:10:27 PM »
You do realize how conceited and stuck up this sounds right?
You can never take a DDF post out of the context of other DDF threads. Everything is intertwined.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 12:10:40 AM by ExGingi »
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #181 on: March 11, 2019, 12:02:34 AM »
Why don't you try Google hador?

Alternatively, take some courses in תורת החסידות.
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Offline yesitsme

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #182 on: March 11, 2019, 02:18:30 AM »
The chasidim who don't speak English as a first language are at a significant disadvantage. But that is not an education issue.
That's why the yoely's are the ones that hire,
and those that go to college work for the yoely's

Offline AussieMan

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #183 on: March 11, 2019, 07:25:33 AM »

Say what??
Is that even a coherent sentence?

You do realize how conceited and stuck up this sounds right?

I'm not a fan of bashing @churnbabychurn, he's entitled to his opinion.
But really, there was no need for this comment.

Since it sounded incoherent to you, a short explanation is due.

When there is a conflict between 2 value systems or values, and one has to choose between them, like Torah and science for example.

Chabad chassidus teaches that it's a conflict between reality and a mere perceived reality, and reality obviously wins.

And to spell it out a little clearer, Torah is the reality, and science (or thinking one needs college for his parnassa) is just a perceived reality.

On a practical daily level, this conflict happens all the time. Teffila bezibbur or being on time to work. Chassidus teaches that Torah and mitzvos are not just a priority, they are the only reality.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:43:21 AM by AussieMan »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #184 on: March 11, 2019, 07:50:13 AM »
That's why the yoely's are the ones that hire,
and those that go to college work for the yoely's
More Yoelys end up doing menial labor like truck driving for eg. than native English speakers.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #185 on: March 11, 2019, 10:26:23 AM »
If you were talking about other, non-technical, skills such as public speaking (for example), some of those definitely do warrant dedicating education time, as long as they're done right.

This line hit another chord. Public speaking is something that should begin in Yeshiva, and is independent of secular education (to some extent). My kids will often have to give presentations for their secular classes (i.e. a biography report with PowerPoint) but there is no reason why they shouldn't do it in their limudei kodesh as well. Why can't  the introduction to Mishna or Gemara require each kid to do a presentation on the various tanaim and amoraim who's words they will be studying? Or on the people in Tanach?

I know that a lot of high school / batei midrashim require bochurim to give a chabura or a shiur, but maybe we should start earlier?

Yes, you can make the argument that public speaking in the secular world or secular topics is different, but is it really? At the end of the day, you are simply presenting material that you've learned to a known audience - which means you have a baseline of what knowledge you can expect the average audience member to have (i.e. you wouldn't give the same shiur to a kiruv audience as you would to a room full of yeshiva boys).

I don't think I gave a chabura in Judaics at least until second year bais medrash. Although my kids Yeshivas do have them write and/or present divrei Torah as early as middle school. I think that needs to be modified and ramped up.


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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #186 on: March 11, 2019, 10:36:22 AM »
If it's taught that way, rather than as part of how to do certain functions within the world, I don't think there's opposition (other than the fact that there might not be people trained in teaching it that way).

Interesting read about what Yeshiva education is all about here (also watch the first video at the bottom).

Slightly OT - I skimmed through the article, and it reminded me of something I really like about Chabad. In Litvish yeshivas there is typically someone who is there to guide the spiritual growth of the students. This Rov is usually referred to as the Mashgiach. Mashgiach is literally a supervisor or an overseer. i.e. a Watchman to make sure that the bochurim are on the right track. (IOW, he's similar to the Mashgiach in a restaurant, making sure that everyone who comes out of the 'kitchen' is kosher). Chabad yeshivas typically have the same person, but he has a different title - the Mashpia. The influencer. i.e. he isn't there to watch over the bochurim, he's there to model the appropriate behavior and make the bochurim realize the proper way to act.

When it comes to Chinuch - regardless of what they learn in Yeshiva, we are the ultimate mashpiim for our children.


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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #187 on: March 11, 2019, 10:36:48 AM »
This line hit another chord. Public speaking is something that should begin in Yeshiva, and is independent of secular education (to some extent). My kids will often have to give presentations for their secular classes (i.e. a biography report with PowerPoint) but there is no reason why they shouldn't do it in their limudei kodesh as well. Why can't  the introduction to Mishna or Gemara require each kid to do a presentation on the various tanaim and amoraim who's words they will be studying? Or on the people in Tanach?

I know that a lot of high school / batei midrashim require bochurim to give a chabura or a shiur, but maybe we should start earlier?

Yes, you can make the argument that public speaking in the secular world or secular topics is different, but is it really? At the end of the day, you are simply presenting material that you've learned to a known audience - which means you have a baseline of what knowledge you can expect the average audience member to have (i.e. you wouldn't give the same shiur to a kiruv audience as you would to a room full of yeshiva boys).

I don't think I gave a chabura in Judaics at least until second year bais medrash. Although my kids Yeshivas do have them write and/or present divrei Torah as early as middle school. I think that needs to be modified and ramped up.


This is really the same as this
And equally full of people who are stuck in life because they could not overcome that barrier.

There are numerous skills in life which can easily be taught without formal secular classes which are not. I have come across many people who are hampered by their inability to express themselves. It takes them 4 or 5 tries to get their point across in way that people can understand what they are trying to say. This would prevent them from being a rebbe as well. There are ways to resolve this within the current system and some yeshivos do it and some not. This is not a separate issue from what I wrote before that there are some who can very easily say a sharfe vort but may be missing some of the basics of the sugyo.
There is no way that someone can be an effective Rebbe without proper language skills.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #188 on: March 11, 2019, 10:53:07 AM »
This line hit another chord. Public speaking is something that should begin in Yeshiva, and is independent of secular education (to some extent). My kids will often have to give presentations for their secular classes (i.e. a biography report with PowerPoint) but there is no reason why they shouldn't do it in their limudei kodesh as well. Why can't  the introduction to Mishna or Gemara require each kid to do a presentation on the various tanaim and amoraim who's words they will be studying? Or on the people in Tanach?

I know that a lot of high school / batei midrashim require bochurim to give a chabura or a shiur, but maybe we should start earlier?

Yes, you can make the argument that public speaking in the secular world or secular topics is different, but is it really? At the end of the day, you are simply presenting material that you've learned to a known audience - which means you have a baseline of what knowledge you can expect the average audience member to have (i.e. you wouldn't give the same shiur to a kiruv audience as you would to a room full of yeshiva boys).

I don't think I gave a chabura in Judaics at least until second year bais medrash. Although my kids Yeshivas do have them write and/or present divrei Torah as early as middle school. I think that needs to be modified and ramped up.


Great point. I think this needs to be emphasized more regardless of how you feel about secular education. I would add that these communication skills are an integral part of not only any parnassah someone wants to take on,  but in any facet of one's life. Whether it be with shalom bayis, raising kids, or just communicating with coworkers or strangers. From my experiences dealing with kids and speaking to mechanchim, many students of yeshiva struggle with reading as well as writing and speaking articulately. These are the most basic skills necessary to function for all life endeavors. Saying chaburas, giving tests with written and oral requirements, and more focus on reading texts effectively as opposed to more "outside" learning ,are ways to help students become more proficient in these fundamental areas of reading, writing, and speaking. Especially in the age of technology, this is something that yeshivas need to focus more time on.

I am speaking more from a Judaic education perspective but IMO the same holds true for English, and considering this is the language most of us speak on a daily basis and will use in the field that we are in, we should become well versed in it.


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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #189 on: March 11, 2019, 10:58:04 AM »

Great point. I think this needs to be emphasized more regardless of how you feel about secular education. I would add that these communication skills are an integral part of not only any parnassah someone wants to take on,  but in any facet of one's life. Whether it be with shalom bayis, raising kids, or just communicating with coworkers or strangers. From my experiences dealing with kids and speaking to mechanchim, many students of yeshiva struggle with reading as well as writing and speaking articulately. These are the most basic skills necessary to function for all life endeavors. Saying chaburas, giving tests with written and oral requirements, and more focus on reading texts effectively as opposed to more "outside" learning ,are ways to help students become more proficient in these fundamental areas of reading, writing, and speaking. Especially in the age of technology, this is something that yeshivas need to focus more time on.

I am speaking more from a Judaic education perspective but IMO the same holds true for English, and considering this is the language most of us speak on a daily basis and will use in the field that we are in, we should become well versed in it.


A person needs to be able to express themseves. It doesn't even need to be in English as much as they need to be able to express themselves in some language. If they are able to express themselves in "yeshivish" they are already most of the way there.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #190 on: March 11, 2019, 11:16:21 AM »
A person needs to be able to express themseves. It doesn't even need to be in English as much as they need to be able to express themselves in some language. If they are able to express themselves in "yeshivish" they are already most of the way there.

I agree that being able to express "yeshivish" clearly is certainly a step, but it only deals with part of the issue because someone outside of the yeshiva world, who at some point everyone will most certainly need to communicate with, will not be able to understand this version of English very well. It limits the range of people one can communicate clearly with. Im not against "yeshivish" lingo but we all know plenty of Rabbanim who are are able to express themselves both in a "yeshivish" way and in a more eloquent Enlgish and I see a great mylah to this.

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #191 on: March 11, 2019, 11:26:24 AM »
I agree that being able to express "yeshivish" clearly is certainly a step, but it only deals with part of the issue because someone outside of the yeshiva world, who at some point everyone will most certainly need to communicate with, will not be able to understand this version of English very well. It limits the range of people one can communicate clearly with. Im not against "yeshivish" lingo but we all know plenty of Rabbanim who are are able to express themselves both in a "yeshivish" way and in a more eloquent Enlgish and I see a great mylah to this.
Once someone has the tools to be able to express themselves they will be able to bring those skills over to a different language as well.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #192 on: March 11, 2019, 11:33:27 AM »
Once someone has the tools to be able to express themselves they will be able to bring those skills over to a different language as well.
+1000

That even applies to touch typing.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #193 on: March 11, 2019, 11:38:38 AM »
Once someone has the tools to be able to express themselves they will be able to bring those skills over to a different language as well.

Counterpoint- It becomes harder for most people to pick up a language as they get older, therefore more effective to teach proper English at a younger age.

Kids are having a hard time even reading and writing hebrew/aramaic (gemara) so I think all languages have become issues

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Re: Re: PSA: Don't swipe recklessly for others
« Reply #194 on: March 11, 2019, 12:03:26 PM »
oib es felt in hasbarah . es felt in havanah
And vice versa!
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #195 on: March 11, 2019, 11:01:58 PM »
This line hit another chord. Public speaking is something that should begin in Yeshiva, and is independent of secular education (to some extent). My kids will often have to give presentations for their secular classes (i.e. a biography report with PowerPoint) but there is no reason why they shouldn't do it in their limudei kodesh as well. Why can't  the introduction to Mishna or Gemara require each kid to do a presentation on the various tanaim and amoraim who's words they will be studying? Or on the people in Tanach?

I know that a lot of high school / batei midrashim require bochurim to give a chabura or a shiur, but maybe we should start earlier?

Yes, you can make the argument that public speaking in the secular world or secular topics is different, but is it really? At the end of the day, you are simply presenting material that you've learned to a known audience - which means you have a baseline of what knowledge you can expect the average audience member to have (i.e. you wouldn't give the same shiur to a kiruv audience as you would to a room full of yeshiva boys).

I don't think I gave a chabura in Judaics at least until second year bais medrash. Although my kids Yeshivas do have them write and/or present divrei Torah as early as middle school. I think that needs to be modified and ramped up.
I would think between siyumim preformances, Siddur and Chumash parties, divrei Torah at the shabbos table, (in Chabad, mivtzoim, tahalucha, etc), and chavrusah learning, kids are taught to speak and express from a young age all the way through all stages of school way more than secular classes.

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #196 on: March 11, 2019, 11:24:31 PM »
I would think between siyumim preformances, Siddur and Chumash parties, divrei Torah at the shabbos table, (in Chabad, mivtzoim, tahalucha, etc), and chavrusah learning, kids are taught to speak and express from a young age all the way through all stages of school way more than secular classes.
Lol, you ever hear a yungerman try to speak coherently at his kids bris?
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #197 on: March 11, 2019, 11:31:23 PM »
Lol, you ever hear a yungerman try to speak coherently at his kids bris?
Yes, some better than others. You ever hear a public school graduate speak coherently at his/her family events? Ask any rabbi of a secular congregation to compare an average best man toast to an average dvar Torah. Come on. Public speaking is in no way a benefit of secular education.

I can write fantastic speeches, saying them on the other hand, is umm, like, umm, ah and umm not so easy.

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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #198 on: March 11, 2019, 11:34:18 PM »
Yes, some better than others. You ever hear a public school graduate speak coherently at his/her family events? Ask any rabbi of a secular congregation to compare an average best man toast to an average dvar Torah. Come on. Public speaking is in no way a benefit of secular education.

I can write fantastic speeches, saying them on the other hand, is umm, like, umm, ah and umm not so easy.
Oh, I didn't mean that you'll get that out of a secular education, just that most people don't get it out of a jewish education either.
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Re: Adding Financial Literacy Courses In Yeshivas
« Reply #199 on: March 11, 2019, 11:46:03 PM »
I would think between siyumim preformances, Siddur and Chumash parties, divrei Torah at the shabbos table, (in Chabad, mivtzoim, tahalucha, etc), and chavrusah learning, kids are taught to speak and express from a young age all the way through all stages of school way more than secular classes.
My father never let me read a d'var torah at the Shabbos table from a sheet we brought home. Read it a few times and then give it over in your own words.
Was good advice.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.