Poll

Who are you leaning towards?

Likud
5 (17.2%)
Blue and White
0 (0%)
Shas
0 (0%)
Charedi Parties(UTJ Aguda)
15 (51.7%)
Labor
2 (6.9%)
Zeut
1 (3.4%)
Meretz
0 (0%)
Yisroel Bateinu
0 (0%)
New Right (Bennet, Shaked)
1 (3.4%)
Kahane Parties
5 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: April 09, 2019, 05:19:44 AM

Author Topic: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)  (Read 102501 times)

Offline doodle

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #100 on: April 10, 2019, 09:50:52 AM »
https://www.amazon.com/Empty-Wagon-Zionisms-journey-identity/dp/1642555541


I haven't read it,but my impression is that he had an agenda to marry the litvish hashkofa with satmar.

So in reality he's probably 80% accurate and 20% satmar influence. Not the pure hashkofa.
No way near 80% accurate.
Recreating history , choosing the Gedolim/Shitos that fit the narrative. Partially accurate but incorrect overall view/agenda .
Salt Is Good

Offline th0306

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #101 on: April 10, 2019, 09:53:05 AM »
Would anyone know where I could find info on the litvishe shita on the state of Israel in general and specifically voting?
 I was shmoozing with a friend today and he was all upset about what satmer is doing now with their asifa in The stadium this week and their ads that they put out, saying that Torah Jews donít believe in the zionist state. He was saying how itís a chillul Hashem. So I answered him that the truth is, that our (litvishe/yeshivish) shita is much closer to what satmer holds than to what Netanyahu ( or more correctly the zionists of old) holds. And he was shocked, but I think Iím right. Does anyone know of any books or a website that would explain it?
You have it wrong:

Satmar's main priority with this demonstration is not to protest against Bibi - it's to protest against most of Chareidi Jews and their Gedolim for not being in line with their "shitah"....

It is indeed terrible......

Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #102 on: April 10, 2019, 09:54:33 AM »
So who generally is the מפלגה החרדית ביותר that you are saying UTJ was the exception?

The exception was publicly and officially supporting a specific party, rather than leaving it to individual judgment, which is based on subjective opinions. I have no doubt in my mind that if Gafni and Eichler weren't in the UTJ list, UTJ would get a much larger portion of the Kfar Chabad vote.

Some of the logic used, is that a true חרדי would know that פיקוח נפש goes ahead of many other things, and supporting a left wing government (or agenda of appeasement) is regarded as Pikuach Nefesh.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 09:58:57 AM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline th0306

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #103 on: April 10, 2019, 09:56:05 AM »
The exception was publicly and officially supporting a specific party, rather than leaving it to individual judgment, which is based on subjective opinions. I have no doubt in my mind that if Gafni and Eichler weren't in the UTJ list, UTJ would get a much larger portion of the Kfar Chabad vote.
Got it.

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #104 on: April 10, 2019, 10:00:20 AM »
The exception was publicly and officially supporting a specific party, rather than leaving it to individual judgment, which is based on subjective opinions. I have no doubt in my mind that if Gafni and Eichler weren't in the UTJ list, UTJ would get a much larger portion of the Kfar Chabad vote.

Some of the logic used, is that a true חרדי would know that פיקוח נפש goes ahead of many other things, and supporting a left wing government (or agenda of appeasement) is regarded as Pikuach Nefesh.
So Shas?

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2019, 10:06:59 AM »
As for the New Right, they didn't really put forth a compelling story. They are seen as spineless opportunistic troublemakers that eventually do the right thing.

Why would someone vote for them rather than Likud? Did they make that case?

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #106 on: April 10, 2019, 10:08:04 AM »
So Shas?

Even worse from a shleimus ha'aretz perspective.

Online Moshe123

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #107 on: April 10, 2019, 10:13:26 AM »
Chabad voting for mizrachists time and again with excuses, just obscures that their sympathies lie there and that's it.

You have Satmar lunatics, Charedi mainstream, Chabad chardalim, and mizrachists.


Back to work.....

Offline chinagel

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #108 on: April 10, 2019, 10:18:09 AM »

I think my friend would only be able to read it if itís in English
definitely not english
https://www.amazon.com/Empty-Wagon-Zionisms-journey-identity/dp/1642555541


I haven't read it,but my impression is that he had an agenda to marry the litvish hashkofa with satmar.

So in reality he's probably 80% accurate and 20% satmar influence. Not the pure hashkofa.
He's much closer to Satmar than that.

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #109 on: April 10, 2019, 10:40:19 AM »
Chabad voting for mizrachists time and again with excuses, just obscures that their sympathies lie there and that's it.

You have Satmar lunatics, Charedi mainstream, Chabad chardalim, and mizrachists.


Back to work.....

B"H, now that we have a dose of sinas chinam this thread is a real Israeli election thread.

Offline chinagel

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #110 on: April 10, 2019, 10:46:46 AM »
B"H, now that we have a dose of sinas chinam this thread is a real Israeli election thread.
Look in the mirror.

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #111 on: April 10, 2019, 10:47:49 AM »

Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #112 on: April 10, 2019, 11:06:51 AM »
Chabad voting for mizrachists time and again with excuses, just obscures that their sympathies lie there and that's it.

You have Satmar lunatics, Charedi mainstream, Chabad chardalim, and mizrachists.


Back to work.....

You start sounding like CBC when you write like that.

Not saying that I agree with the writer, but if you want to understand the reasoning of people to vote for the United Right Wing read http://col.org.il/%D7%97%D7%93%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%97%D7%91%D7%93_%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%94_%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%99_%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A2_%D7%98%D7%91_%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%90_%D7%90%D7%A6%D7%91%D7%99%D7%A2_%D7%92_%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%94_117541.html

Which also explains some of the history where Shas is

Even worse from a shleimus ha'aretz perspective.

It would be a long stretch to call Shas מפלגה החרדית ביותר (and even a greater stretch to do so for the United Right Wing). Accepting ministerial positions, especially in the Ministry of Religious Affairs, or at the Ministry of Interior, presents very serious Halachic problems.

As for Shleimus Ha'aretz (or Pikuach Nefesh), while it is true that Shas (and specifically Arye Deri) have an extremely tainted history, I think at this point they have learned their lesson. (Though I would think Deri learned it better, as he has personally suffered, whereas Gafni (and Litzman) never saw real personal consequences for their support of Gaza withdrawal.

« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 01:16:08 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #113 on: April 10, 2019, 11:47:19 AM »
Electoral math:

I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online zh cohen

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #114 on: April 10, 2019, 11:49:22 AM »

It would be a long stretch to call Shas מפלגה החרדית ביותר. Accepting ministerial positions, especially in the Ministry of Religious Affairs, or at the Ministry of Interior, presents very serious Halachic problems.


Aren't all of their decisions based on the psokim of their rabbonim? Is Rabbi Sholom Cohen (or Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) less charedi than the rabbonim of ג?

Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #115 on: April 10, 2019, 11:52:14 AM »
Aren't all of their decisions based on the psokim of their rabbonim? Is Rabbi Sholom Cohen (or Rabbi Ovadia Yosef) less charedi than the rabbonim of ג?

Would any of the Rabbonim of ג ever consider accepting or running for a position of Chief Rabbi of the State of Israel?

ETA: Read https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=13937.msg1921517#msg1921517 and follow the link to read the booklet יהדות התורה והמדינה. This might give people some better perspective of where Chabad stands.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2019, 12:19:15 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2019, 12:15:16 PM »
How's this for a possible scenario:

Blue & White disintegrates, either entirely or into the 3 or 4 parts that united in order to form it, and some of those end up supporting a Netanyahu coalition, while Lieberman remains out.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Moshe123

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2019, 12:19:58 PM »
How's this for a possible scenario:

Blue & White disintegrates, either entirely or into the 3 or 4 parts that united in order to form it, and some of those end up supporting a Netanyahu coalition, while Lieberman remains out.

All is possible. It's crucial for Charedim that Bennett passes with the military votes. He needs to get 5% among them.

Online ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2019, 12:22:35 PM »
All is possible. It's crucial for Charedim that Bennett passes with the military votes. He needs to get 5% among them.
I'm not so sure that is true. While Bennet is probably easier to deal with than Lieberman, he's a bit of a troublemaker for no good reason, and if he gets in with 4 or 5 seats (the difference in votes is minuscule) who loses?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Online Moshe123

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2019, 12:48:21 PM »
I'm not so sure that is true. While Bennet is probably easier to deal with than Lieberman, he's a bit of a troublemaker for no good reason, and if he gets in with 4 or 5 seats (the difference in votes is minuscule) who loses?

UTJ would lose the 8th. Lieberman is a major headache if the coalition hinges on him.