Poll

Who are you leaning towards?

Likud
5 (17.2%)
Blue and White
0 (0%)
Shas
0 (0%)
Charedi Parties(UTJ Aguda)
15 (51.7%)
Labor
2 (6.9%)
Zeut
1 (3.4%)
Meretz
0 (0%)
Yisroel Bateinu
0 (0%)
New Right (Bennet, Shaked)
1 (3.4%)
Kahane Parties
5 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: April 09, 2019, 05:19:44 AM

Author Topic: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)  (Read 91442 times)

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9549
  • Total likes: 3041
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #580 on: February 03, 2020, 01:18:27 PM »
It's another data point on his phenomenal success in foreign policy.
Please lets not go there. We have the other thread for that.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9549
  • Total likes: 3041
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #581 on: February 03, 2020, 01:18:48 PM »
Trump has a 95% approval in Israel and still has not helped him in the past.
Interesting.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1067
  • Total likes: 788
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #582 on: February 03, 2020, 01:19:26 PM »
The part that surprises me is the Shas/Gimmel vs YB, I thought it would simmer down so there would be a hope for a coalition.

Hate is a very powerful political weapon that has gotten Liberman this far. What made you thing he would stop using it?

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1067
  • Total likes: 788
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #583 on: February 03, 2020, 01:20:11 PM »
Please lets not go there. We have the other thread for that.

I'm talking about Bibi's success not Trump's.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9549
  • Total likes: 3041
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #584 on: February 03, 2020, 01:20:47 PM »
I'm talking about Bibi's success not Trump's.
Sorry.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #585 on: February 03, 2020, 02:11:50 PM »
Hate is a very powerful political weapon that has gotten Liberman this far. What made you thing he would stop using it?

Indeed. This election (and the past two) have absolutely nothing to do with anything in the geopolitical arena. There are only two items that fuel the campaigns and the elections: 1. Jealousy of, and hatred towards Netanyahu, and 2. The Jewish identity of the state (or in other words to what extent does the state become disconnected from Judaism and Jewish roots).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 506
  • Total likes: 266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #586 on: February 03, 2020, 02:52:19 PM »
Does Trump carry any weight or a non-issue?

IINM, there is a skyscraper in Tel-aviv with a Bibi ad that shows a picture of Bibi and Trump shaking hands, and the Tagline - "In a different League". Clearly, Bibi thinks it helps, as his campaign would've put up the sign. But what I can't tell you:

- If this as was designed to help bibi's campaign to build his relationship with trump
- IIRC, this was from before the first election, so clearly it hasn't helped as much as he'd like at the ballot box. i.e. the ad is preaching to the choir of people who already like both Bibi and Trump.

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 506
  • Total likes: 266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #587 on: February 03, 2020, 02:56:07 PM »
Indeed. This election (and the past two) have absolutely nothing to do with anything in the geopolitical arena. There are only two items that fuel the campaigns and the elections: 1. Jealousy of, and hatred towards Netanyahu, and 2. The Jewish identity of the state (or in other words to what extent does the state become disconnected from Judaism and Jewish roots).

To add to this - I think that Lieberman has a double-sided hatred going on, which is causing him and his 10-seat block to hold things up. He isn't a fan of the Charedim, nor of the deeper left. He has no problem governing with both Bibi and Gantz together, but won't go into government with either sets of their other partners.

Had bib been able to get Lieberman to commit to him in either of the last two elections, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Offline Proisrael

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1398
  • Total likes: 215
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Krayot,Israel
  • Programs: SPG,Hilton,Club Carlson
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #588 on: February 03, 2020, 02:58:15 PM »
Hate is a very powerful political weapon that has gotten Liberman this far. What made you thing he would stop using it?

Because the election is going to come down to annexation. If he sides with Blue and White who partners with the Meretz/Arab parties he will lose all support. He needs to come out of this election with Netanyahu as his partner. He needs to be able to get some strong concessions from Netanyahu but his constant hate on the charedim will hurt him.

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #589 on: February 03, 2020, 03:33:09 PM »
To add to this - I think that Lieberman has a double-sided hatred going on, which is causing him and his 10-seat block to hold things up. He isn't a fan of the Charedim, nor of the deeper left. He has no problem governing with both Bibi and Gantz together, but won't go into government with either sets of their other partners.

Had bib been able to get Lieberman to commit to him in either of the last two elections, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Lieberman has no problem with the Charedim. He was a best friend of some of them up until recently. He is a shrewd opportunist that found a recipe to collect a substantial number of votes and serve as the kingmaker in Israeli politics.

Because the election is going to come down to annexation. If he sides with Blue and White who partners with the Meretz/Arab parties he will lose all support. He needs to come out of this election with Netanyahu as his partner. He needs to be able to get some strong concessions from Netanyahu but his constant hate on the charedim will hurt him.

-1

Annexation is irrelevant. And geopolitically one would need a microscope to find the differences in stated positions between Likud and B&W (though as far as capabilities, one would need to be totally blind and deaf to not see the difference between Netanyahu and all the others).

Lieberman has figured out an excellent way to wield power. The one thing he hasn't figured out yet is what to do with it. He has put himself in the supposed position of kingmaker, where in reality all he is able to do is block, he cannot join any real leadership. Agreeing to his terms of abandoning the Jewish roots of the state would be total suicide and chaos. It isn't a governable position.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 03:37:22 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 506
  • Total likes: 266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #590 on: February 03, 2020, 04:50:09 PM »
Lieberman has no problem with the Charedim. He was a best friend of some of them up until recently. He is a shrewd opportunist that found a recipe to collect a substantial number of votes and serve as the kingmaker in Israeli politics.


Forgive me if I misspoke, but isn't one of Lieberman's big sticking points the draft law?

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #591 on: February 03, 2020, 05:09:01 PM »
Forgive me if I misspoke, but isn't one of Lieberman's big sticking points the draft law?

He couldn't care less about it (other than the fact that invoking it allows him to gain political strength).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 506
  • Total likes: 266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #594 on: February 07, 2020, 01:31:47 PM »
Where's the dislike button

What are you disliking? An open-eyed view of the reality of the situation? No matter which way you slice things, as long as Lieberman gets in, nothing changes - hence the updated title of this thread! Or are you disliking the fact that they aren't facing reality properly and pre-scheduling the next 5 or 6 semi-annual rounds, so people can make better travel plans?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12617
  • Total likes: 791
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #595 on: February 10, 2020, 03:25:34 PM »
What are you disliking? An open-eyed view of the reality of the situation? No matter which way you slice things, as long as Lieberman gets in, nothing changes - hence the updated title of this thread! Or are you disliking the fact that they aren't facing reality properly and pre-scheduling the next 5 or 6 semi-annual rounds, so people can make better travel plans?
Any time someone asks me about the elections I ask them if they are referring to the ones in March or September
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 506
  • Total likes: 266
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #596 on: February 11, 2020, 06:00:48 PM »
What are you disliking? An open-eyed view of the reality of the situation? No matter which way you slice things, as long as Lieberman gets in, nothing changes - hence the updated title of this thread! Or are you disliking the fact that they aren't facing reality properly and pre-scheduling the next 5 or 6 semi-annual rounds, so people can make better travel plans?

The open-eyed view of the reality of the situation -> I am wondering who caves first - I definitely don't think it's going to be Bibi

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #597 on: February 16, 2020, 04:56:23 PM »
Wrapping up a few days in EY, here are my unscientific impressions of the atmosphere.

I think most people are resigned to the fact that the outcome won't be much different than the previous one and the country is headed to round 4.

As such there seems to be a lot of apathy.

Gantz seems to keep on stumbling whenever he talks. Those that hate (and are jealous) of Netanyahu seem to have run out of ammo. Yes, they say that they won't form a coalition with Netanyahu, but there's only that much mileage one can get out of the indictments, especially now that they were served (hastily at a bad timing with procedural flaws). As someone put it to me: Netanyahu should pay the price, not for what is in the indictments, as those are a witch hunt with nothing material, but for allowing the forces that brought about these bogus indictments to fester. That being said it's obvious that Gantz is simply not capable, constantly stumbling in interviews, it seems like his strongest selling point is his looks.

The United Arab List supposedly started to campaign towards non-arabs, claiming that they will protect minorities. Their campaign apparently includes ads in Yiddish, Amharic and Russian (I haven't seen any, just heard about it on the radio).

Meanwhile some think tank put up ads depicting Abbas and Haniye on blindfolded and on their knees, with the headline "Peace is made with defeated enemies". The mayor of Tel-Aviv banned those signs, which gave them additional publicity. I heard a couple of interviews with a woman from the organization that put those signs up. I think she did well in the interviews. While they are appealing to the Supreme Court against the ban, she thanks the mayor of Tel-Aviv for the publicity. She welcomes anyone that finds those ads offensive to suggest a different headline that will convey their message that a different approach should be tried, rather than the one that has been tried for decades and didn't work, of appeasement and giving up things in exchange for "peace".
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 10808
  • Total likes: 3402
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #598 on: February 17, 2020, 06:08:22 PM »
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/734439

I take this with a grain of salt given the source, but if there is truth to this it is what I've been claiming all along: that Soros and his ilk are funding the fights against Netanyahu in a covert way due to legal limitations.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 06:13:49 PM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2645
  • Total likes: 300
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #599 on: February 17, 2020, 07:31:00 PM »
https://www.israelhayom.co.il/article/734439

I take this with a grain of salt given the source, but if there is truth to this it is what I've been claiming all along: that Soros and his ilk are funding the fights against Netanyahu in a covert way due to legal limitations.
And rich people funded bibi also. What's your point?