Poll

Who are you leaning towards?

Likud
5 (17.2%)
Blue and White
0 (0%)
Shas
0 (0%)
Charedi Parties(UTJ Aguda)
15 (51.7%)
Labor
2 (6.9%)
Zeut
1 (3.4%)
Meretz
0 (0%)
Yisroel Bateinu
0 (0%)
New Right (Bennet, Shaked)
1 (3.4%)
Kahane Parties
5 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: April 09, 2019, 05:19:44 AM

Author Topic: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)  (Read 91444 times)

Offline Dan

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #560 on: December 16, 2019, 04:54:12 PM »
Why would that happen more if there are direct PM elections?
Because most of the fighting is over who will be PM. Without that being on the table they would find a way to work together.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #561 on: December 16, 2019, 04:54:31 PM »
It they wouldn't play along they would get voted out. Or a new PM would win if they were seen as the problem.
Self correcting problem either way.

Voted out by who? Whoever voted for them voted for their stated policies. The voting public is bitterly divided between the Only Netanyahu camp and the Get Rid of Netanyahu camp. The Arab parties have their own agenda and issues, and Liberman is in a league of his own.

The only way out is to clearly and unequivocally define what the fight is about. It is about the future of the State of Israel, whether it will be on a path of a Jewish State (whatever that may mean) or a State of Its Citizens. And IMHO the UTJ (and others) should focus their campaign efforts ON THOSE THEY KNOW WILL NOT VOTE FOR THEM, but want a Jewish State and will not vote for any party that wasn't part of the Right Wing Bloc this time around. Also some on the right need to get their act together and figure out how to waste the least possible number of votes.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Dan

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #562 on: December 16, 2019, 04:55:29 PM »
Bibi wouldn't get 50% of the electorate, it would at most a plurality. Even if there's a runoff, I think most B&W voters want them to stand up to bibi, otherwise they would have lost a lot between elections 1 and 2.
Whether a majority is needed is a separate matter.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #563 on: December 16, 2019, 04:57:03 PM »
Because most of the fighting is over who will be PM. Without that being on the table they would find a way to work together.

True. But in reality that is just smoke and mirrors. Was V15 also just about who will be PM or about the direction of the country?

Legislation was introduced so that the major funders of V15 cannot overtly fund their fight, but we might find out some day how they managed to get around it. There's nothing that holds B&W together other than MAJOR funding for that purpose.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline aygart

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #564 on: December 16, 2019, 05:00:15 PM »
Whoever voted for them voted for their stated policies. The voting public is bitterly divided between the Only Netanyahu camp and the Get Rid of Netanyahu camp.
Which one?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline ExGingi

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #565 on: December 16, 2019, 05:01:20 PM »
Which one?

Their policy in regards to Netanyahu.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #566 on: December 16, 2019, 05:03:21 PM »
Whether a majority is needed is a separate matter.
If only 40% of the country elects bibi as PM, I'm not sure that compelles B&W to join the coalition as they can claim thy represent part of the other 60%.

The only way direct election of the PM helps is if kne candidate has a clear mandate of 50% from a wide field.

Offline Dan

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #567 on: December 16, 2019, 05:07:00 PM »
If only 40% of the country elects bibi as PM, I'm not sure that compelles B&W to join the coalition as they can claim thy represent part of the other 60%.

The only way direct election of the PM helps is if kne candidate has a clear mandate of 50% from a wide field.
No 50% of popular vote requirement in the US. Why does it need to be a requirement? They don't have to join, but odds are they will suffer if they're seen as the obstacle.

Either way, I don't see what the problem is with a runoff of the top 2.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #568 on: December 16, 2019, 05:08:13 PM »
No 50% of popular vote requirement in the US. Why does it need to be a requirement?
The US does not have a parliamentary system. Also just take a look at Washington.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #569 on: December 16, 2019, 05:15:39 PM »
No 50% of popular vote requirement in the US. Why does it need to be a requirement? They don't have to join, but odds are they will suffer if they're seen as the obstacle.

Either way, I don't see what the problem is with a runoff of the top 2.
My point is a political one. If bibi wins a direct election without a majority, I don't think it forces gantz to join a coalition politically. I'm not sure how a minority government PM is any better.

Offline Dan

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #570 on: December 16, 2019, 05:29:32 PM »
My point is a political one. If bibi wins a direct election without a majority, I don't think it forces gantz to join a coalition politically. I'm not sure how a minority government PM is any better.
Meh.
In the runoff he would have a majority or he would not and someone else would.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yammer

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #571 on: December 17, 2019, 08:20:30 AM »
The US does not have a parliamentary system. Also just take a look at Washington.
Canada has been running with a minority govt for some time now. Votes are gathered by a bill to bill basis.

And if ( barely )works in the US that has a 2 party system, it can work in a parliamentry system. It will simply cost the taxpayer more.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: 2019 Israeli election
« Reply #572 on: February 03, 2020, 01:00:07 PM »
Well the topic here needs to be 2020 Israeli election.

So NEtanyahu goes to Africa meets with the Uganda PM the Sudanese FM and almost gets a commitment to open an Embassy in Jerusalem. Can anyone see Gantz having this ability to meet world leaders on this level? What in the world does anyone see in the man (outside being the Joe Biden of Israel)?!?!?

Offline Dan

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #573 on: February 03, 2020, 01:03:58 PM »
Well the topic here needs to be 2020 Israeli election.
Title updated.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #574 on: February 03, 2020, 01:05:27 PM »
Does the peace plan announced help Bibi?
Does being joined at the hip with Trump help him?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Proisrael

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #575 on: February 03, 2020, 01:10:26 PM »
Does the peace plan announced help Bibi?
Does being joined at the hip with Trump help him?

Problem is those who did not vote for Bibi wont vote for him this round regardless of what he accomplishes. They have a full blown hate agenda against him. What this does help him is in his negotiations with YB when the time comes. I do not think there will be an election in the next 5years with a clear victory for the right (remember the left have zero chance of forming a govt given they have max 45 seats). But Lieberman cannot turn down Netanyahu offer if he is offering annexation as it will make Lieberman look very weak in any further elections.

The part that surprises me is the Shas/Gimmel vs YB, I thought it would simmer down so there would be a hope for a coalition.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #576 on: February 03, 2020, 01:12:58 PM »
I haven't been following closely, but I think Bibi is a victim of his own success. Everyone admits that he's doing a very good job as Prime Minister, but thing have been going so well for so long that it's become the norm and people don't realize that they are risking that because "it's someone else's turn"

Offline CountValentine

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #577 on: February 03, 2020, 01:14:43 PM »
Problem is those who did not vote for Bibi wont vote for him this round regardless of what he accomplishes. They have a full blown hate agenda against him. What this does help him is in his negotiations with YB when the time comes. I do not think there will be an election in the next 5years with a clear victory for the right (remember the left have zero chance of forming a govt given they have max 45 seats). But Lieberman cannot turn down Netanyahu offer if he is offering annexation as it will make Lieberman look very weak in any further elections.

The part that surprises me is the Shas/Gimmel vs YB, I thought it would simmer down so there would be a hope for a coalition.
Does Trump carry any weight or a non-issue?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline zh cohen

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #578 on: February 03, 2020, 01:16:18 PM »
Does being joined at the hip with Trump help him?

It's another data point on his phenomenal success in foreign policy.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: 2019-2020 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #579 on: February 03, 2020, 01:16:40 PM »
Does Trump carry any weight or a non-issue?

Trump has a 95% approval in Israel and still has not helped him in the past.