Poll

Who are you leaning towards?

Likud
5 (17.2%)
Blue and White
0 (0%)
Shas
0 (0%)
Charedi Parties(UTJ Aguda)
15 (51.7%)
Labor
2 (6.9%)
Zeut
1 (3.4%)
Meretz
0 (0%)
Yisroel Bateinu
0 (0%)
New Right (Bennet, Shaked)
1 (3.4%)
Kahane Parties
5 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Voting closed: April 09, 2019, 05:19:44 AM

Author Topic: 2019-2022 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)  (Read 228694 times)

Offline ellemeno

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Offline yelped

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1001 on: March 24, 2021, 12:36:35 AM »
https://votes24.bechirot.gov.il/nationalresults
What in the world are all those parties with a couple of hundreds of votes each and how did they end up with more than 2 votes each?  ;D

Offline Zevwolf

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1002 on: March 24, 2021, 12:40:21 AM »

Offline ExGingi

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Offline JlmBoi

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Offline Moshe123

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1005 on: March 24, 2021, 02:09:20 AM »
If Raam stays below the threshold, there is pretty much guaranteed a Bibi government with Bennett.

Offline Proisrael

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1006 on: March 24, 2021, 03:03:36 AM »
If Raam stays below the threshold, there is pretty much guaranteed a Bibi government with Bennett.

Seems like they will make it,

Offline Moshe123

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1007 on: March 24, 2021, 06:32:55 AM »
In a normal country, Bibi resigns this morning and allows for a right wing government under someone else from Likud, including Saar's party to be formed without him. 4 tries and you're out.
But in that case Bennett will want elections again, for his delusions of grandeur.

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1008 on: March 24, 2021, 06:35:47 AM »
In a normal country, Bibi resigns this morning and allows for a right wing government under someone else from Likud, including Saar's party to be formed without him. 4 tries and you're out.
But in that case Bennett will want elections again, for his delusions of grandeur.
Resign now? Why on earth?
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

Offline Moshe123

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1009 on: March 24, 2021, 06:42:53 AM »
Resign now? Why on earth?

He failed to win a majority?

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1010 on: March 24, 2021, 06:44:43 AM »
He failed to win a majority?
Noone ever wins a majority here. There isn't a clear majority of pro or anti Bibi either way
The chiddush of DDF is the way Dan Deals with all us crazies 🤪

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1011 on: March 24, 2021, 06:49:55 AM »
My earlier confidence was clearly overblown but I still think Bibbi gets 61. There are around 400k special ballots, from which the army's tilt hard right, although it's hard to predict the others since its a new Covid phenomena.

Raam is for sure in with 155,000 votes already counted (the entrance threshold is ~135,000). That means if everybody observes their pre-election commitments, there will be 5th elections.

If Bibbi gets 61, he will likely take Saar and/or Gantz or at least part of their parties to avoid being beholden to Ben Gvir & Avi Maoz.

If Bibbi gets 60 or under, the immediate question is whom Rivlin nominates. There is no way Bennet will recommend Lapid, which means Lapid needs the Arab Joint List, Gantz, & Saar or Raam to have more recommendations than Bibbi. Gantz & Saar seem likely, the Joint List plausible, and Raam unlikely - Lapid is claiming they scheduled a meeting and Raam is vocally denying it.

If Lapid gets the mandate, it would be a herculean task to entice Bennet enough, likely necessitating giving him first place in a PM rotation. Assuming Lapid is willing to do it, as he's been saying he is (although it's probably against his personal political interests), it would still take an ideologically polar coalition to agree on a moratorium on any contentious changes to the status quo, and even if they're all willing to accept a freeze on their aggressive polar agendas, they still need to find something universal enough to coalesce around - replacing Bibbi won't hold them together for too long, and then they still need Raam to support them. It's a series of hoops they are extremely unlikely to jump through. There won't be any deserters from the Likud or Charedim.

There is always the possibility for a Lapid government without Bennet leaning on the Arab Joint List at least to abstain, but the Joint List won't rush to support it, and it won't last past the first rocket from Gaza so it would be political suicide on Saars behalf.

If Bibbi gets the mandate (Rivlin may able to give it to Lapid alone and then call for elections, depending a lot on if the Arabs recommend Lapid or not), there is no way he makes a narrow government with Raam. It will be a short lived government with Ben Gvir, Maoz, and Raam trying to share a bed, and Bibbi wouldn't risk it. The Arab street is especially resistant to Ben Gvir & even Smotrich. If they do 61 without Ben Gvir & Smotrich, it will only take 1 deserter from Bennet or the Likud to spoil the party. 

Though I do think if Bibbi gets the mandate, Saar will sit with him. It's his only pathway to remain employed. Bibbi will give them the house. Gantz is more likely to join personality wise, but he has much more to gain by stalling for 5th elections and possibly becoming the interim PM in November if 75 MKs can't agree to cancel him.

At the end of the day, Saar is the kingmaker. He can make Lapid PM even without Bennet, and he can make Bibbi PM with a guaranteed Bennet. The question is, what can anybody give him that will somehow make him relevant?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 08:21:27 AM by PlatinumGuy »
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1012 on: March 24, 2021, 06:56:20 AM »
In a normal country, Bibi resigns this morning and allows for a right wing government under someone else from Likud, including Saar's party to be formed without him. 4 tries and you're out.
But in that case Bennett will want elections again, for his delusions of grandeur.
I'm not sure I agree. Over 2m voters want Bibbi as PM. In a normal country, Saar, Gantz, and even Liberman stop the personal boycott and join a government whose policies they support.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Happyguy

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1013 on: March 24, 2021, 07:41:23 AM »



Offline YitzyS

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1014 on: March 24, 2021, 07:47:25 AM »
My earlier confidence was clearly overblown but
And thus was born two excellent Platinum Guy memes, each to be used as needed in any thread of DDF  ;D  :P








Offline PlatinumGuy

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״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1016 on: March 24, 2021, 08:11:07 AM »
This quote, from Isaac Newton who lived from 1643 to 1727, provides comfort & distress. Doesn't matter which century you live in... apparently. 🤷🏻‍♂️

"I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people."
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline Moshe123

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1017 on: March 24, 2021, 08:13:52 AM »
My earlier confidence was clearly overblown but I still think Bibbi gets 61. There are around 400k special ballots, from which the army's tilt hard right, although it's hard to predict the others since its a new Covid phenomena.

Raam is for sure in with 155,000 votes already counted (the entrance threshold is ~135,000). That means if everybody observes their pre-election commitments, there will be 5th elections.

If Bibbi gets 61, he will likely take Saar and/or Gantz or at least part of their parties to avoid being beholden to Ben Gvir & Avi Maoz.

If Bibbi gets 60 or under, the immediate question is whom Rivlin nominates. There is no way Bennet will recommend Lapid, which means Lapid needs the Arab Joint List, Gantz, & Saar or Raam to have more recommendations than Bibbi. Gantz & Saar seem likely, the Joint List plausible, and Raam unlikely - Lapid is claiming they scheduled a meeting and Raam is vocally denying it.

If Lapid gets the mandate, it would be a herculean task to entice Bennet enough, likely necessitating giving him first place in a PM rotation. Assuming Lapid is willing to do it, as he's been saying he is (although it's probably against his personal political interests), it would still take an ideologically polar coalition to agree on a moratorium on any contentious changes to the status quo, and even if they're all willing to accept a freeze on their aggressive polar agendas, they still need to find something universal enough to coalesce around - replacing Bibbi won't hold them together for too long, and then they still need Raam to support them. It's a series of hoops they are extremely unlikely to jump through. There won't be any deserters from the Likud or Charedim.

There is always the possibility for a Lapid government without Bennet leaning on the Arab Joint List at least to abstain, but the Joint List won't rush to support it, and it won't last past the first rocket from Gaza so it would be political suicide on Saars behalf.

If Bibbi gets the mandate (Rivlin may able to give it to Lapid alone and then call for elections, depending a lot on if the Arabs recommend Lapid or not), there is no way he makes a narrow government with Raam. It will be a short lived government with Ben Gvir, Maoz, and Raam trying to share a bed, and Bibbi wouldn't risk it. The Arab street is especially resistant to Ben Gvir & even Smotrich. If they do 61 without Ben Gvir & Smotrich, it will only take 1 deserter from Bennet or the Likud to spoil the party. 

Though I do think if Bibbi gets the mandate, Saar will sit with him. It's his only pathway to remain employed. Bibbi will give them the house. Gantz is more likely to join personality wise, but he has much more to gain by stalling for 5th elections and possibly becoming the interim PM in November if 75 MKs can't agree to cancel him.

The double envelopes are long not only soldier votes. Not even the majority. They were pretty evenly split last time. Likeliest change at this point is Meretz gaining a seat at the expense of Raam.

Offline Happyguy

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1018 on: March 24, 2021, 08:14:31 AM »


Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: 2019-2021 Israeli Election (See Also: Definition Of Insanity)
« Reply #1019 on: March 24, 2021, 08:23:45 AM »
The double envelopes are long not only soldier votes. Not even the majority. They were pretty evenly split last time. Likeliest change at this point is Meretz gaining a seat at the expense of Raam.
Thats their prediction here https://elections24.dicta.org.il/, but I’d take anything with a grain of salt. These ballots aren’t anything like last year, there are much more of them because of Covid. 89k old age homes for example that got to vote on site for the first time.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים