Kavey El Hashem-Ein Keloykeinu.How come in every shul i'm always falling behind?

[ExGingi]

There's no such thing as 'correct nusach'.

-1

There could be a "correct nusach" according to a tradition of a certain kehila.

It doesn't make anything else wrong, just incorrect for someone who cares about the tradition.

[yelped]

There's no such thing as 'correct nusach'. Maybe you mean that you've davened in places where the official nusach is that each pizmon has its own 'tune'. I personally have never been in a place where each day had a different tune - unless maybe they're only subtly different and I didn't notice.

What I meant is correct nusach unless you know otherwise. It's very possible that wherever you davened didn't do that simply because no knows about it. There is a possibility that there are kehillas that specifically don't have different tunes, but it is more likely to me that people simply forgot it and don't know the difference. Especially with these nuschaos that are pretty much universal for Bnei Ashkenaz.

[ExGingi]

What I meant is correct nusach unless you know otherwise. It's very possible that wherever you davenes didn't do that simply because no knows about it. There is a possibility that there are kehillas that specifically don't have different tunes, but it is more likely to me,that people simply forgot it and don't know the difference. Especially with these nuschaos that are pretty much universal for Bnei Ashkenaz.

+1

[aygart]

What I meant is correct nusach unless you know otherwise. It's very possible that wherever you davened didn't do that simply because no knows about it. There is a possibility that there are kehillas that specifically don't have different tunes, but it is more likely to me that people simply forgot it and don't know the difference. Especially with these nuschaos that are pretty much universal for Bnei Ashkenaz.

Who are you including in "Bnei Ashkenaz"? Yekkes? Nusach ashkenaz? Ashkenezim?

What is your source for these different nuschaos and for their being "pretty much unviversal"?

[ExGingi]

Who are you including in "Bnei Ashkenaz"? Yekkes? Nusach ashkenaz? Ashkenezim?

What is your source for these different nuschaos and for their being "pretty much unviversal"?

Search Google for ליטא רייסין and you'll find selichos and machzorim, some will add זאמוט, some will add פולין, while the broadest seems to be מחזור כמנהג פולין, רייסין, ליטא, פיהם, מעהרין ואונגרין. I think these are what might be referred to. They all davened Nusach Ashkenaz before תלמידי הבעש״ט spread Chassidus.

[aygart]

Search Google for ליטא רייסין and you'll find selichos and machzorim, some will add זאמוט, some will add פולין, while the broadest seems to be מחזור כמנהג פולין, רייסין, ליטא, פיהם, מעהרין ואונגרין. I think these are what might be referred to. They all davened Nusach Ashkenaz before תלמידי הבעש״ט spread Chassidus.

for the tune? They are all this universal different tune?

[skyguy918]

Search Google for ליטא רייסין and you'll find selichos and machzorim, some will add זאמוט, some will add פולין, while the broadest seems to be מחזור כמנהג פולין, רייסין, ליטא, פיהם, מעהרין ואונגרין. I think these are what might be referred to. They all davened Nusach Ashkenaz before תלמידי הבעש״ט spread Chassidus.

Lol, you're making quite the leap from the actual words to tunes.

[yelped]

for the tune? They are all this universal different tune?

The tunes for Yomim Noiruim Nusach are pretty much universal. This is a historical fact and is also brought down in Teshuva seforim.

[aygart]

The tunes for Yomim Noiruim Nusach are pretty much universal. This is a historical fact and is also brought down in Teshuva seforim.

Only for certain parts. Slichos are not even universal regarding which ones to say when.

[whYME]

The tunes for Yomim Noiruim Nusach are pretty much universal. This is a historical fact and is also brought down in Teshuva seforim.

Tell that to the "chazzen" in my shul

[yelped]

Only for certain parts. Slichos are not even universal regarding which ones to say when.

Do you have a source saying otherwise than what I said? That the tunes are all the same every day? I am toileh it with simple Shikcha until I hear otherwise from any maivin.

[skyguy918]

Do you have a source saying otherwise than what I said? That the tunes are all the same every day? I am toileh it with simple Shikcha until I hear otherwise from any maivin.

With maivin being defined as anyone who 'knows' your 'historical truth' I'm sure. 

[aygart]

Do you have a source saying otherwise than what I said? That the tunes are all the same every day? I am toileh it with simple Shikcha until I hear otherwise from any maivin.

Do you have a source that they are different?

BMG is based off Kletzk.

Do you mean a different tune for each pizmon? I am not sure that you are correct about that in the first place at least for all nuschaos. As a bochur in yeshiva there was someone who went through each day's slichos with whomever was going to daven for the amud the next day and I am pretty certain that they used at least just about the same nusach for just about each day's pizmon, but this is something I am uncertain about and do not know enough about to give a knowledgable answer.

[yelped]

With maivin being defined as anyone who 'knows' your 'historical truth' I'm sure. 

You didn't answer the question or say otherwise.

Do you have a source that they are different?

Yes, personal experience and veracity from Baal tefilos. All I heard otherwise is hamoin am who said they never heard it. Which basically means that the bochur who went to say selichos didn't know it either. So far I didn't hear of anyone that heard from a Baal tefiloh who is into history and nuschaos state that all the piyotim are said with the same tune. It is possible that it exists, but so far no one stated that.

[aygart]

You didn't answer the question or say otherwise.Yes, personal experience and veracity from Baal tefilos. All I heard otherwise is hamoin am who said they never heard it. Which basically means that the bochur who went to say selichos didn't know it either. So far I didn't hear of anyone that heard from a Baal tefiloh who is into history and nuschaos state that all the piyotim are said with the same tune. It is possible that it exists, but so far no one stated that.

I actually discussed this with a professional chazan who I am friends with who also didn't know of any difference other than for 13 midos next week.

[ExGingi]

You didn't answer the question or say otherwise.Yes, personal experience and veracity from Baal tefilos. All I heard otherwise is hamoin am who said they never heard it. Which basically means that the bochur who went to say selichos didn't know it either. So far I didn't hear of anyone that heard from a Baal tefiloh who is into history and nuschaos state that all the piyotim are said with the same tune. It is possible that it exists, but so far no one stated that.

I heard about this for the first time last year, and have no reason to think differently than you state. Is there/could you get sample recordings of the tunes for the various Pizmonim? I think part of the issue is that not all are said in all years, and after all each is a once a year early morning event.

[Yonah]

https://www.bangitout.com/top-ten-most-popular-skipped-parts-of-davening/

[yelped]

I heard about this for the first time last year, and have no reason to think differently than you state. Is there/could you get sample recordings of the tunes for the various Pizmonim? I think part of the issue is that not all are said in all years, and after all each is a once a year early morning event.

Yup. I would have to record them myself, unless I ask around for someone who might have some.

I actually discussed this with a professional chazan who I am friends with who also didn't know of any difference other than for 13 midos next week.

Thanks. Where did he learn nusach from?

[aygart]

I would have to record them myself, unless I ask around for someone who might have some.Thanks. Where did he learn nusach from?

Not sure, but one thing I do know is that he has been doing this for at least 30 years.

[yelped]

Not sure, but one thing I do know is that he has been doing this for at least 30 years.

Ok. I'm just pointing out that Chazzanim don't necessarily keep the nusach as it was done by the hamoin am. They are more likely to keep the nusach that some famous chazan or the other devised.