Author Topic: Over The Top Purim Parties  (Read 37952 times)

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #160 on: March 26, 2019, 12:47:25 PM »
Aygart has shimush from some of those Rabbonim whom shkop wants to enact a ban and has seen a thing or two about how they do or don’t operate....

Ok but what are the odds  :)

There are sugyos that actually deal with the Rabbonim banning certain practices and when the Rabbonim will not push a ban despite their dissaproval. There is a vast body of teshuvos that relate to this subject. And there is the fifth shulchan aruch that can only be acquired through substantial shimush chachamim. To suggest that the Rabbanim can simply ban anything that doesn’t meet their approval and be effective is to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the dynamic of how the Rabbanim operate...

I wasnt arguing to the contrary

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2019, 12:47:45 PM »
I ignored them because I have no idea how to answer such bizarre questions. I don't keep a tally on what the rates of Hatzolah's involvement on Purim are from year to year nor the rates of boys and girls mingling on Purim from year to year. And the whole "adjusted for growth" is even weirder.

I was just commenting on facts presented in the letter according to the writer. I am not making calculations like an accountant would during an audit.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #162 on: March 26, 2019, 12:51:26 PM »
Incorrect. You dont make gezairos and bans based on specific instances as you are suggesting there should be. Those parties should be addressed individually by a local Rabbi or leader of community. If other parties are not experiencing these issues that is certainly relevant.

Amazing. Do you actually read the threads that you comment on or do you just blindly respond? I just finished saying that I don't think a ban would be effective. Let that sink in.

Great point. those parties should be addressed individually. I think that is spot on.
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Online aygart

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #163 on: March 26, 2019, 12:59:42 PM »
I ignored them because I have no idea how to answer such bizarre questions. I don't keep a tally on what the rates of Hatzolah's involvement on Purim are from year to year nor the rates of boys and girls mingling on Purim from year to year. And the whole "adjusted for growth" is even weirder.

I was just commenting on facts presented in the letter according to the writer. I am not making calculations like an accountant would during an audit.
THose questions are very relevant about whether or not these parties had any effect. If hatzolah responded to the same number of people who drank too much as any other year then these parties were nothing more than a change in location regarding that specific issue.

Adjusting for growth is because the extent of the general issue with Hatzolah can only be measured as a percentage of overall population. If the number of cases went up by 5% but the population grew by 10% then we did better than last year.

All said, I am not sure what you want anyone to do different than they already did. I don't think you really know either. It sounds to me like you are just enjoying complaining about the parties but are not advocating any specific action.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online aygart

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2019, 01:00:20 PM »
Great point. those parties should be addressed individually. I think that is spot on.
Maybe they are.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yitzshpitz

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #165 on: March 26, 2019, 01:06:51 PM »
Amazing. Do you actually read the threads that you comment on or do you just blindly respond? I just finished saying that I don't think a ban would be effective. Let that sink in.

Great point. those parties should be addressed individually. I think that is spot on.

So what exactly is your point- that crazy, out of control parties where people are doing the 3 aveiros chamuros are bad and inappropriate?

Offline Naftuli19

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #166 on: March 26, 2019, 01:14:25 PM »
The fact that I probably never tried out a Tesla does not preclude me from stating an opinion.
 
Let's say you had two choices: A Camry or a Tesla. Let's say, for argument's sake, that the cost was pretty similar.

Granted there are good reasons to opt for Tesla over the Camry. One of them is performance. Another one is fun.

Do you honestly believe that image is not a factor in most cases?

Even Tesla would disagree with you.
im not sure if your see how many Tesla's are out, there but anyone with a open mind would understand that it has nothing to do with image i enjoy driving this car and happens to be your seeing it  doesn't give one a image im just doing what i njoy, and you prob do the same but happens to be people dont see it things that you enjoy
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Offline Naftuli19

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #167 on: March 26, 2019, 01:28:42 PM »
If someone handed out millions of dollars in checks from his Rolls on Purim I wouldn't care about that either. I don't understand why you care so much about what other people spend their money on at all, it's non of your business. As Dan said, pick which part you actually care about and we can address it but you're just all over the place spewing nonsense.
+1000
Do u make a big fuss when they drop 200k on tzdukeh?!?! if not that dont make a fuss when they do it on a party etc...
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #168 on: March 26, 2019, 02:06:25 PM »
I'm not sure why anyone is assuming that people that sponsor Over The Top parties do it in order to show off or outdo anyone.

I can very well see that it is done out of benevolence. They know that not everyone will come to them for a donation, and might find this as a way to give to everyone, even those that don't come for a donation. They might not even go into the details of what's done, but rather employ a party planner, and then they might or might not get involved in approving or disapproving certain details. If anyone is trying to outdo or show off, it's usually only the party planners.

As someone posted upthread, it's a matter of personal choice and education as to whether to participate in these parties or not. Based on my personal background, I wouldn't be attracted one bit to any such party (big or small). I'd much rather be at a meaningful farbrengen (or at a party where I can take my young kids and they would enjoy).
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 02:11:23 PM by ExGingi »
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #169 on: March 26, 2019, 02:18:26 PM »
So what exactly is your point- that crazy, out of control parties where people are doing the 3 aveiros chamuros are bad and inappropriate?
That an open letter about it is appropriate to raise awareness rather than saying everyone should just mind their own business.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #170 on: March 26, 2019, 02:20:03 PM »
+1000
Do u make a big fuss when they drop 200k on tzdukeh?!?! if not that dont make a fuss when they do it on a party etc...
-1000

Dropping 200k on tzedaka - good thing.

Throwing a Purim party where Hatzalah needs to repeatedly haul off stone drunk kids - bad thing. 
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #171 on: March 26, 2019, 02:25:20 PM »
Let's ban cars because there are immature teenage drivers and people who use cars to drive to inappropriate places

Online aygart

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #172 on: March 26, 2019, 02:26:51 PM »
That an open letter about it is appropriate to raise awareness rather than saying everyone should just mind their own business.
What do you expect the open letter and awareness to accomplish?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #173 on: March 26, 2019, 02:30:03 PM »
Throwing a Purim party where Hatzalah needs to repeatedly haul off stone drunk kids - bad thing.
Do you honestly think that wouldn't happen without these parties and didn't happen before these parties were as big as they are?
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #174 on: March 26, 2019, 02:30:34 PM »
Let's ban cars because there are immature teenage drivers and people who use cars to drive to inappropriate places

DUI is the issue, not general driving.
Similarly, problematic parties are the issue, not general parties with family and friends.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #175 on: March 26, 2019, 02:31:05 PM »
Do you honestly think that wouldn't happen without these parties and didn't happen before these parties were as big as they are?

Unfortunately happens all the time, with or without the lavish parties.

@Shkop may I suggest that you pause for a minute, rather than following the urge to argue your side, and try to write a coherent post arguing the other side. It might actually affect how you argue your own side.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #176 on: March 26, 2019, 02:31:28 PM »
DUI is the issue, not general driving.
Similarly, problematic parties are the issue, not general parties with family and friends.
That is exactly the point. A wealthy person spending a lot on an extravagant party is not the issue at all.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #177 on: March 26, 2019, 02:32:00 PM »
What do you expect the open letter and awareness to accomplish?
More than keeping mum.
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Offline stooges44

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #178 on: March 26, 2019, 02:33:22 PM »
Is that an attempt to get out of discussing the finer details of the argument?
I don't see why a discussion on what forms of spending are healthy is any dumber than a million discussions on this amazing forum.

Of all the million discussions why did you choose this one?

Just curios, you've been here a while and you're only speaking up now and on this particular subject.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #179 on: March 26, 2019, 02:33:41 PM »
It seems that shkop is finally maskim that the issue is the underage drinking and irresponsible teens/adults. That is unrelated to these parties per se, and is an issue that has been addressed already, although perhaps not enough, and was clearly not the underlying theme of the letter