Author Topic: Over The Top Purim Parties  (Read 37946 times)

Offline Dave321

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2019, 08:15:22 PM »
I was by 2 such parties in Lakewood on Purim. One allegedly spent upwards of 250k for one night. We are talking mbd, full bar, massive band a whole team of bouncers and the list goes on and on. The other was prob in the 100k range. These are young guys that have something to prove. They want to show they are in the big leauges. Remember rechnitz used to do this every year until he stopped.

Not sure why we need rabbonim to shut it down. Everyone should watch their own kids.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2019, 09:05:25 PM »
I was by 2 such parties in Lakewood on Purim. One allegedly spent upwards of 250k for one night. We are talking mbd, full bar, massive band a whole team of bouncers and the list goes on and on. The other was prob in the 100k range. These are young guys that have something to prove. They want to show they are in the big leauges. Remember rechnitz used to do this every year until he stopped.

Not sure why we need rabbonim to shut it down. Everyone should watch their own kids.

My kids like to show off their purim fireworks. Who cares?

Offline cozmohoot

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2019, 09:29:22 PM »
When I see Over The Top Weddings/Bar Mitzvah's or even Brissn, I say I wish I would have the ability to afford such an event along with the brains not to make such an event.
Like.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2019, 10:23:31 PM »
100%. And to the point of this thread, throwing a retardedly expensive Purim party with singers, bands, waiters, expensive booze, bouncers, etc. is a glorious example of kavod seeking that causes kinah and taavah. What a colossal shame.


It seems safer to assume self image is involved rather then not.

All I can assume here is that you both have no clue what the others reasoning is.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2019, 11:52:49 PM »
Why do you propose to know why all of these people make these parties? Besides for the fact that somebody else's "struggle" with kavod is, quite frankly, none of your business.


All I can assume here is that you both have no clue what the others reasoning is.

Actually, somebody else's struggle for kavod is everyone else's business when it is clearly directed at everyone else. Is the public only entitled to attend the wild ultra expensive disco party but not to formulate an opinion about it? That's juvenile.

And the reason I gave is the same one you did. A struggle for kavod. The sad part is that some people have zero control over said struggle.

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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2019, 11:57:34 PM »
Actually, somebody else's struggle for kavod is everyone else's business when it is clearly directed at everyone else. Is the public only entitled to attend the wild ultra expensive disco party but not to formulate an opinion about it? That's juvenile.

And the reason I gave is the same one you did. A struggle for kavod. The sad part is that some people have zero control over said struggle.
Why I don't I give you $20MM and see how you "struggle with kavod." This is besides for the fact that you can assume why people make these parties from today till tomorrow, and you may even be right about some of them, but you definitely won't be right about all of them.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #86 on: March 26, 2019, 12:05:20 AM »
Actually, somebody else's struggle for kavod is everyone else's business when it is clearly directed at everyone else. Is the public only entitled to attend the wild ultra expensive disco party but not to formulate an opinion about it? That's juvenile.

And the reason I gave is the same one you did. A struggle for kavod. The sad part is that some people have zero control over said struggle.
We aren't talking about formulating an opinion. Everyone is free to have an opinion about anything under the sun. We are talking about public bashing including bashing rabbonim who may not agree with said opinions, and trying to interfere with other peoples personal decisions.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #87 on: March 26, 2019, 12:05:51 AM »
Why I don't I give you $20MM and see how you "struggle with kavod." This is besides for the fact that you can assume why people make these parties from today till tomorrow, and you may even be right about some of them, but you definitely won't be right about all of them.

You make a valid point. Do not judge a man until you stand in his shoes. Maybe if I made millions I would also be tempted to throw an insane 250k Purim party (or whatever it costed).

That said, I don't understand your thing about other reasons. Clearly, such people are trying to prove themselves. They want to show the world that they made it in the big leagues. Just read all the comments of the people who were actually there. So what's your point? That these guys have other reasons too? OK great.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #88 on: March 26, 2019, 12:10:12 AM »
You make a valid point. Do not judge a man until you stand in his shoes. Maybe if I made millions I would also be tempted to throw an insane 250k Purim party (or whatever it costed).

That said, I don't understand your thing about other reasons. Clearly, such people are trying to prove themselves. They want to show the world that they made it in the big leagues. Just read all the comments of the people who were actually there. So what's your point? That these guys have other reasons too? OK great.
Even if that's true, so what? Since when did it become your job to tell someone that he shouldn't do anything to "show the world they made it" are you these people's spiritual advisor?
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Dan

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #89 on: March 26, 2019, 12:13:02 AM »
The fact that I probably never tried out a Tesla does not preclude me from stating an opinion.
 
Let's say you had two choices: A Camry or a Tesla. Let's say, for argument's sake, that the cost was pretty similar.

Granted there are good reasons to opt for Tesla over the Camry. One of them is performance. Another one is fun.

Do you honestly believe that image is not a factor in most cases?

Even Tesla would disagree with you.
Note: I wrote "inappropriate image" not "inappropriate". Not qualifying what inappropriate means leads to things never intended. We are talking about image. I wrote specifically about inappropriate or unhealthy image.

Anyway, you agree about a 300k Ferrari. So it's just a question about where to draw the line.

I assert that for most "regular" people a Tesla or a $5000 suit is partially about unhealthy image, as did someone upthread. Feel free to disagree. 


Image was literally 0% of the equation. I was perfectly happy driving around a $500 beater until it broke down and my wife said I needed to buy a car. I was perfectly happy driving a $19K Altima for 8 years and then flipping it before it started needing maintenance.

Along came a car that's a complete paradigm shift in driving. You don't need to waste time filling it up with gas imported from countries that want to destroy us. You don't need to worry about losing the key as there is no key. You don't have to worry about wasting time on oil changes and engine maintenance as those don't exist. And it's more like piloting an awesome rocketship than driving a car. And the government offered me a $7,500 handout to go green and buy it.

So you're saying it's better for "regular people" (whatever the heck that is supposed to mean?!?) to spend $30,000 on an inferior Camry than $30,000 on a Tesla because in your mind it's giving off an "image."

I have a newsflash for you. The only one thinking about what image it's giving off is you sir. And it sure isn't pretty.

Feel free to elaborate.
Stop worrying about what other people spend and what other people do and start worrying about how you can be a better Jew. You will never be happy always worrying about what someone else is doing wrong as you can never fix that. When you see image problems in others take it as a mirror from above to look inward. That's what I strive to do at least when I see something that bothers me.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #90 on: March 26, 2019, 12:14:08 AM »
Even if that's true, so what? Since when did it become your job to tell someone that he shouldn't do anything to "show the world they made it" are you these people's spiritual advisor?

Yes, it is a Jew's job to tell the world to do the right thing, especially when a huge chillul Hashem is being made.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #91 on: March 26, 2019, 12:16:18 AM »
Yes, it is a Jew's job to tell the world to do the right thing, especially when a huge chillul Hashem is being made.
Methinks need to learn a little more and talk a little less.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #92 on: March 26, 2019, 12:16:51 AM »
Stop worrying about what other people spend and what other people do and start worrying about how you can be a better Jew. You will never be happy always worrying about what someone else is doing wrong as you can never fix that. When you see image problems in others take it as a mirror from above to look inward. That's what I strive to do at least when I see something that bothers me.
+1 Well said.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #93 on: March 26, 2019, 12:22:08 AM »
stop worrying about what other people spend and what other people do and start worrying about how you can be a better Jew.

Good point, but this thread is about the article on The Yeshiva World about people all over New York and New Jersey throwing over the top Purim parties. And a lot of people there and here agree that it's a problem. Are you saying they all these people should stop worrying about things that negatively affect the youth and just worry about themselves?

I think they should do both. They should worry about themselves and worry about issues that affect the Jewish community. It isn't mutually exclusive.
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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2019, 12:25:53 AM »
I think the bottom line is that there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with making these parties. The only taanah mentioned so far is that they could've spent money better on other things, and that the motivation isn't good. But bottom line, it isn't any of our business to tell people how they should be spending their money (especially considering many spend a lot more on what even the complainers consider good), and what their motivation should be, or how they should be working on themselves.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2019, 12:27:20 AM »
Good point, but this thread is about the article on The Yeshiva World about people all over New York and New Jersey throwing over the top Purim parties. And a lot of people there and here agree that it's a problem. Are you saying they all these people should stop worrying about things that negatively affect the youth and just worry about themselves?

I think they should do both. They should worry about themselves and worry about issues that affect the Jewish community. It isn't mutually exclusive.
The parties aren't negativly affecting youth any more than a pizza shop affects youth by being open and youths hanging out there

Offline Dan

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2019, 12:27:23 AM »
Good point, but this thread is about the article on The Yeshiva World about people all over New York and New Jersey throwing over the top Purim parties. And a lot of people there and here agree that it's a problem. Are you saying they all these people should stop worrying about things that negatively affect the youth and just worry about themselves?

I think they should do both. They should worry about themselves and worry about issues that affect the Jewish community. It isn't mutually exclusive.
Good deflection, but you were the ones making this about Teslas and why it's better to spend $30K on a worse car than a $30K Tesla due to "image."
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Denverite

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2019, 12:30:18 AM »
You make a valid point. Do not judge a man until you stand in his shoes. Maybe if I made millions I would also be tempted to throw an insane 250k Purim party (or whatever it costed).

That said, I don't understand your thing about other reasons. Clearly, such people are trying to prove themselves. They want to show the world that they made it in the big leagues. Just read all the comments of the people who were actually there. So what's your point? That these guys have other reasons too? OK great.

@Shkop we can be concerned about something we see without maligning others intent.  I’m horribly guilty of that myself and try to be careful not to do it.. Many people probably may want to show that they “made it” but there can also be other positive reasons  as well. I remember being flabbergasted at one of my first Simchas I attended with my husband’s Persian family. It was a bar mitzvah that cost MANY multiples of my (very nice) wedding. I made some kind of rude comment about why they needed to waste so much money and show off to this extent, and what a horrible example they were setting for the bar mitzvah boy. One of my in-laws explained that the parents never got to have a proper wedding as they were leaving Iran as refugees and now decades later they HAD “made it” and it just made them so happy to be able to celebrate, and really share the simcha with everyone, have a huge Jewish party that the Mullahs in Iran would despise and finally get to enjoy after working so hard. Obviously, many of these kinds of events are meant to be statements but we shouldn’t assume what that statement is and we definitely shouldn’t assume it comes from a negative character trait.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2019, 12:31:00 AM »
Good deflection, but you were the ones making this about Teslas and why it's better to spend $30K on a worse car than a $30K Tesla due to "image."

I only brought that up because someone else used a Tesla as an example of something purchased for image to which you argued vehemently.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: Over The Top Purim Parties
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2019, 12:33:54 AM »
I think the bottom line is that there isn't anything intrinsically wrong with making these parties. The only taanah mentioned so far is that they could've spent money better on other things, and that the motivation isn't good. But bottom line, it isn't any of our business to tell people how they should be spending their money (especially considering many spend a lot more on what even the complainers consider good), and what their motivation should be, or how they should be working on themselves.

I beg to differ.

Here is a small part of the letter:

One party in the Ir Hatorah of Lakewood, a party that likely cost around $250,000 (including a full band, massive tent, multiple superstar singers, tons and tons of food, open bars) caused more damage than any possible good. Taaruvos galore, with boys and girls mingling all over the nearby streets.

At a different Shul party, Hatzolah had to be there so many times it is not possible to count. One kid after the next was carried out, as children of all ages managed to get toasted on all types of hard liquor. Of course, the wonderful Baalei Batim of this Shul were writing checks while the 13 year old boys got hammered on as much liquor as they wanted.


Is there nothing intrinsically wrong with endangering kids so that Hatzolah needs to be called multiple times, boys and girls mingling, and little boys getting toasted on all types of hard liquor? I think there is a lot wrong.
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