Kalman Yeger: "Palestine does not exist"

[YesThatsMe]

So why don't the Palestinians say that the Jordanians took away their land?

Because they were living on the West side of the Jordan, not the East side!

[hvaces42]

Read a book? You mean Berel Wein?

On a serious note, there was plenty of Arab Muslims in Palestine before 1948, that did not come with the Aliya waves. Lydda and Ramle, Jaffa, Nablus, Hebron, Acre, Haifa, Jenin, and Jericho etc. were significantly sized Muslim towns. Jerusalem was on the larger end, and 80% Muslim. Nazareth and -interestingly enough- Ramallah, were Arab Christian. The Jews were very sparse pre 1850, settled mainly in Safed and Jerusalem with small communities in Tiberias and Hebron. The waves of Aliya brought the population to a 70-30 ratio which was the number the British sought to maintain. All the talk of net immigration by Arabs to Palestine is blatantly false, peddled by the Israelis. There was a net migration of Arabs from Palestine in the 1880-1960 era, which is the bulk of the Jewish Aliya. The Arab birthrate, until today, is higher than the Jewish one. If Arabs were coming in, then the population here would be a Arab majority, which was only avoided by this net migration.

That being said, the Arabs have plenty land of their own and should make way for the Jews who have been wandering around for 2,000 years. Let’s ignore the fact that authentic Judaism, the version that has lasted these 2,000 years, rejects “forcing the Messiah”. Let’s take all these Arabs and push them out. And then let’s wonder why they want to murder us. Let’s point to the beautiful country we built (by schnorring from the Germans and Americans) and hide behind our advancement. And let’s promote the fact we are a true democracy (as long as you’re not Arab, Mizrachi, or Chareidi- but hey, America had slaves once too).

I love Eretz Yisrael, spent most of my life there, do a lot of business there, but am sickened by Zionism more everyday that goes by.

Connor Cruise O'brien is a good start...

How are you still posting. Just saw 4 neturei karta guys arrested at the protest i thought they take away your phone when you get arrested.

So that was you...

[YesThatsMe]

Jordan, Syria, Palestine all inventions of Sykes/Picot. The Arabs were Turkish subjects for hundreds of years. They never wanted a Palestine until the Jews wanted their homeland back.

100% correct. You’re addressing “Palestinian Nationalism”. But don’t deny Arabs living in Palestine. And why does Jewish Nationalism trump Arab Nationalism? Because we thought of the idea first?!

[hvaces42]

100% correct. You’re addressing “Palestinian Nationalism”. But don’t deny Arabs living in Palestine. And why does Jewish Nationalism trump Arab Nationalism? Because we thought of the idea first?!

Your agenda is anti-zionism...you cant mix your religious views with your political views.

There is no Palestine at present. There is a State of Israel that they want to "free from the river to the sea." Can you see a difference?!?

The UN created an Arab State in 1947...its called Jordan so quit this Arab Nationalism baloney. They only became that way when they lost war after war. The Arabs are always fighting the last war. In 1967 they wanted 1948, now they want 1967.

[YesThatsMe]

Your agenda is anti-zionism...you cant mix your religious views with your political views.

There is no Palestine at present. There is a State of Israel that they want to "free from the river to the sea." Can you see a difference?!?

The UN created an Arab State in 1947...its called Jordan so quit this Arab Nationalism baloney. They only became that way when they lost war after war. The Arabs are always fighting the last war. In 1967 they wanted 1948, now they want 1967.

Yes I am anti-Zionist. Proudly anti those who corrupted the holy Torah.

There is no Palestine because they lost the wars of words and tanks. Not because they don’t exist.

The UN did not create Jordan. Churchill did. And the people living on the West side don’t need to cross the the river eastward because some guy in London decides.

And yes, they suck at wars. So? They are now non-existent?

What’s YOUR long term solution for the 2 million Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza?

[ludmila]

1) 65% is non desert
2) Bedouin are humans too. Just saying
3) Read my list of towns that had actual buildings and streets and stuff, which were Arab

1. I thought it is mostly desert, are you sure that 65% is not?
2. Did not say they are not
3.You missed Bethlehem which was at one time 95% Christian, now 95% Moslem.Most Arab christians immigrated to the US,Canada, Chile and other.

[hvaces42]

Yes I am anti-Zionist. Proudly anti those who corrupted the holy Torah.

There is no Palestine because they lost the wars of words and tanks. Not because they don’t exist.

The UN did not create Jordan. Churchill did. And the people living on the West side don’t need to cross the the river eastward because some guy in London decides.

And yes, they suck at wars. So? They are now non-existent?

What’s YOUR long term solution for the 2 million Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza?

Dump Hamas and PA and elect a real secular government. Stop culture of death. Would be a nice start.

Give them the land they want as a state with minor land swaps as was proposed. Recognize Israel's right to exist.

Arafat was offered all that plus. Instead he send suicide bombers. So they built the Wall and that stopped.

Why do you think they're in an open air prison? Because Arafat wouldnt risk his life to make peace. And because he thought he would be irrelevant.

If you can tell me what was wrong with any of what they were offered in the past maybe I'll understand. Dont tell me Torahs about moshiach being forced. You're dealing with a reality that now exists that we have a state and they do not. Stop fighting a war you lost 70 years ago. Otherwise youre exactly like them...fighting the last lost war.

[YesThatsMe]

1. I thought it is mostly desert, are you sure that 65% is not?
2. Did not say they are not
3.You missed Bethlehem which was at one time 95% Christian, now 95% Moslem.Most Arab christians immigrated to the US,Canada, Chile and other.

Many did immigrate, so that sort of flies in the face that no one was here, or else who immigrated!? Bethlehem was just a backwater compared to the rest. Ad Hayom Hazeh

[YesThatsMe]

Dump Hamas and PA and elect a real secular government. Stop culture of death. Would be a nice start.

Give them the land they want as a state with minor land swaps as was proposed. Recognize Israel's right to exist.

Arafat was offered all that plus. Instead he send suicide bombers. So they built the Wall and that stopped.

Why do you think they're in an open air prison? Because Arafat wouldnt risk his life to make peace. And because he thought he would be irrelevant.

If you can tell me what was wrong with any of what they were offered in the past maybe I'll understand. Dont tell me Torahs about moshiach being forced. You're dealing with a reality that now exists that we have a state and they do not. Stop fighting a war you lost 70 years ago. Otherwise youre exactly like them...fighting the last lost war.

Agreed that the Arabs severly screwed up their cause by choosing violence and ignoring reality, (though that’s the same thing the Zionists did 1903-1948)

The Palestinians are not serious about peace because any agreement means they lost and they
Can’t do it. Secular or Religious. The most nationalist Arab MK today is an atheist, and both Arafat and Abu Mazen are not examples of religious fanaticism at all. Arafat saw what happened to Rabin and freaked out. The lesson of the Middle East is that whoever gives up a sliver of land gets shot or unthrowned, Arab or Israeli (Abdullah, Sadat, Rabin, Kadima etc)

Um, I’m a religious believer Chareidi. Fighting old wars are my thing. Why don’t you face reality and become non observant because that’s what 90% of world Jewry is like? Of course we still believe in our beliefs, whether reality today is kind to us or not!

[hvaces42]

You still didnt answer the question that you posed to me. I gave you a solution. Youre answer is they have to save face. Thats the irrationality of it all. Any offer short of "from the river to the sea..." is unacceptable. I'd take status quo over being dead. Whats YOUR solution? Maybe we should pack up all 6 million Jews and just leave to...

[yitzgar]

Agreed that the Arabs severly screwed up their cause by choosing violence and ignoring reality, (though that’s the same thing the Zionists did 1903-1948)

The Palestinians are not serious about peace because any agreement means they lost and they
Can’t do it. Secular or Religious. The most nationalist Arab MK today is an atheist, and both Arafat and Abu Mazen are not examples of religious fanaticism at all. Arafat saw what happened to Rabin and freaked out. The lesson of the Middle East is that whoever gives up a sliver of land gets shot or unthrowned, Arab or Israeli (Abdullah, Sadat, Rabin, Kadima etc)

Um, I’m a religious believer Chareidi. Fighting old wars are my thing. Why don’t you face reality and become non observant because that’s what 90% of world Jewry is like? Of course we still believe in our beliefs, whether reality today is kind to us or not!

Big difference between giving up beliefs and being pragmatic. Would just like to mention that Arafat wasn't just trying not to get killed. The pa leadership gains from being in their current situation. As long as they can keep everyone riled up, the money pours in, and they don't have to be responsible and actually govern.

[hvaces42]

Big difference between giving up beliefs and being pragmatic. Would just like to mention that Arafat wasn't just trying not to get killed. The pa leadership gains from being in their current situation. As long as they can keep everyone riled up, the money pours in, and they don't have to be responsible and actually govern.

Wasnt even going to countenance that silliness with a response. The fact that he identifies as a chareidi and fights old fights for the sake of fighting without being pragmatic was enough for me to see that I'm dealing with the same irrationality.

[stooges44]

I smell a thread split coming on....

[Emkay]

That being said, the Arabs have plenty land of their own and should make way for the Jews who have been wandering around for 2,000 years.

Socialism?

[YesThatsMe]

You still didnt answer the question that you posed to me. I gave you a solution. Youre answer is they have to save face. Thats the irrationality of it all. Any offer short of "from the river to the sea..." is unacceptable. I'd take status quo over being dead. Whats YOUR solution? Maybe we should pack up all 6 million Jews and just leave to...

I think the ideal solution would be a two state solution. Borders that both can agree on. But that obviously will never happen.

Realistically, eventually the Palestinians in the West Bank will want to become Israelis-Arabs, with voting rights and all that entails. And Israel must be ready for that.

[YesThatsMe]

Big difference between giving up beliefs and being pragmatic. Would just like to mention that Arafat wasn't just trying not to get killed. The pa leadership gains from being in their current situation. As long as they can keep everyone riled up, the money pours in, and they don't have to be responsible and actually govern.

Obviously they gain, they aren't serious about peace. But Israel needs to ask itself how can we end this thing. I don't think Sadat was serious about peace either, he was just trying to court the Americans and diss the Soviets. Begin took him to task on his words and managed to get through the message that peace can work. This from a rightist, who had to give up settlements in the Sinai and lost his government as a result.

Bibi is no Begin, Gantz is no Begin, and the Palestinians don't have a Sadat. Only then can something real come out.

[hvaces42]

I think the ideal solution would be a two state solution. Borders that both can agree on. But that obviously will never happen.

Realistically, eventually the Palestinians in the West Bank will want to become Israelis-Arabs, with voting rights and all that entails. And Israel must be ready for that.

Um Right of Return much?

[hvaces42]

Obviously they gain, they aren't serious about peace. But Israel needs to ask itself how can we end this thing. I don't think Sadat was serious about peace either, he was just trying to court the Americans and diss the Soviets. Begin took him to task on his words and managed to get through the message that peace can work. This from a rightist, who had to give up settlements in the Sinai and lost his government as a result.

Bibi is no Begin, Gantz is no Begin, and the Palestinians don't have a Sadat. Only then can something real come out?

Why do you put the onus on Israel? Israel has always said they will negotiate without preconditions. Palestinians dont want to negotiate. The onus is not on Israel.

Begin invited Sadat to Jerusalem and never had any intention of it being a real offer. Sadat, the idiot, accepted it and showed up.

[YesThatsMe]

Why do you put the onus on Israel? Israel has always said they will negotiate without preconditions. Palestinians dont want to negotiate. The onus is not on Israel.

Begin invited Sadat to Jerusalem and never had any intention of it being a real offer. Sadat, the idiot, accepted it and showed up.

The onus is on the country who is occupying to figure out a solution for the those who were already there. There are no Palestinian leaders to negotiate with, Israel must be pro-active about finding a long term solution that doesn't involve Smotrich and Kahanism.

Stop reading Berel Wein! Sadat invited himself to the Knesset, get your history facts straight.

[~King Lake~]

The onus is on the country who is occupying to figure out a solution for the those who were already there

So you wanna say that the Arabs where in Israel before Jews where there?
Everybody knows that Israel belongs to the Jewish nation and the nvizaraden sent the Jews out of Israel and the Arabs took control if Israel then but no one lived there for about 6 to 800 years and then the Arabs started moving into the stolen land, and now they have the chutzpah to say that they where there first!!