Shmurah Matzah Prices NYC Area 2019/5779

[ExGingi]

Don’t be flabbergasted.
From a Halachic Standpoint there is nothing wrong with them . They are one hundred percent Avodas Yad Matzos and are Kosher Lchatchila even according to the Divrei Chaim .
Maybe they are not so “traditional”,  but that’s not a Halachic issue .

I am not saying that they are not kosher. But to market them as "Hand Matzos" is misleading.

You spoke to the Divrei Chaim to confirm that he would approve of them?

How are these different than the early Machine Matzos that were forbidden? (other than the conveyor belt baking, which I don't think existed in the early days of Machine Matzos, and is just another issue).

[doodle]

It doesn't explicitly say it, though it does say מצות אנשים. I will double check with the source of that quote. But one can simply buy a box and check out the texture. The machine matzos which are marketed as hand matzos are rolled using a hand operated machine, and are baked using a conveyor. The result of those is uniform matzos (just like the square machine matzos), unlike hand matzos which will never be uniform in thickness or in level of baking.

Here is an ad for those machine matzos which are marketed as hand matzos.

There is nothing wrong with the Ad either . Whoever wrote it is a Talmid Chacham who knows Hilchos Matza .
( the only sad part is Matza for Anash.. sadly Klal Yisroel is so terribly fractured that to sell Matzo you need to make an “us verse them issue”  )

[doodle]

I am not saying that they are not kosher. But to market them as "Hand Matzos" is misleading.

You spoke to the Divrei Chaim to confirm that he would approve of them?

How are these different than the early Machine Matzos that were forbidden? (other than the conveyor belt baking, which I don't think existed in the early days of Machine Matzos, and is just another issue).

Did I speak to the Divrei Chaim ??
Can we keep this Halachic discussion at a mature level ?

[aygart]

Can we keep this Halachic discussion at a mature level ?

For example

( the only sad part is Matza for Anash.. sadly Klal Yisroel is so terribly fractured that to sell Matzo you need to make an “us verse them issue”  )

[ExGingi]

There is nothing wrong with the Ad either . Whoever wrote it is a Talmid Chacham who knows Hilchos Matza .
( the only sad part is Matza for Anash.. sadly Klal Yisroel is so terribly fractured that to sell Matzo you need to make an “us verse them issue”  )

I am not doubting his qualifications. But there are definitely plenty of "Anash" and "Rabbonei Anash" that disagree with him. As I said before, I am not saying that it's not kosher, I am saying that this is misleading marketing. It is definitely NOT what ANASH, that follow traditions of ANASH, would call Hand Matzos. (where in the world did you see any "us versus them issue"?)

[ExGingi]

Did I speak to the Divrei Chaim ??
Can we keep this Halachic discussion at a mature level ?

You were the one who claimed

They are one hundred percent Avodas Yad Matzos and are Kosher Lchatchila even according to the Divrei Chaim .
Maybe they are not so “traditional”,  but that’s not a Halachic issue .

without bringing any proof or backing to your claim.

I am the one claiming that these should not be called "Hand Matzos" by ANASH who follow TRADITIONS of ANASH (and you seem to concur that they are not traditional).

[ExGingi]

This isn't about Matzos, but very much relevant for Pesach. Should we start an online petition to wait until after Pesach with this (and maybe tone down the rhetoric, so that doesn't cause an increase in the price of Avocados for Pesach).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/america-would-run-out-of-avocados-in-weeks-if-trump-shuts-border-with-mexico-grower-warns

[aygart]

This isn't about Matzos, but very much relevant for Pesach. Should we start an online petition to wait until after Pesach with this (and maybe tone down the rhetoric, so that doesn't cause an increase in the price of Avocados for Pesach).

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/america-would-run-out-of-avocados-in-weeks-if-trump-shuts-border-with-mexico-grower-warns

Buy hard avocados now and keep them refrigerated. They will be perfect on Pesach.

[ExGingi]

Buy hard avocados now and keep them refrigerated. They will be perfect on Pesach.

Not sure I have the refrigerator space for a case of Avocados right now.

[aygart]

Not sure I have the refrigerator space for a case of Avocados right now.

Your porch?

[ExGingi]

Your porch?

With the unstable weather we've been having, I'm not sure what the result would be. And storing it there would require something to make sure the squirrels can't get to it.

[ExGingi]

I was told that's what the Costco matzah is.

I think it's time to reevaluate the reliability of some of your sources.

Where do you see in what you quoted that it is fake news?

Just to be sure, regarding the Matzos sold at Costco, I double checked with the source of the quote I posted, and here's his response (some emphasis added):

These matzos are 100% עבודת יד.
Without the use of any type of rollers, etc.
בלי התחכמות.
Rolled with a velger shteken

[avromie7]

I was in Bingo a few days ago. They had Israeli hand Matzos with the eidah hachareidis (I forgot the brand name)for $10.49 a pound iirc.

Someone recently told me there is a product on the market that is a kind of hybrid machine/ hand matzoh. The mixing and first part of the kneading, the cutting of the dough into balls, and the actual placing of the matzos in the oven are done by hand but much of the process is machine; the ball of dough is pressed through (foot powered?) mechanical rollers and the matzos go through the oven on a conveyer belt among other things. The end product looks identical to a hand matza and is much cheaper to produce.I wonder if any of the cheaper hand matzos use such a system?

Why is the foot powered kneading worse than what they have in Lakewood? (a metal table with a metal pole attached to it)

[Dan]

I think it's time to reevaluate the reliability of some of your sources.

Came from a local Rabbi. Feel free to PM and you can correct him.

[NTorch]

Mods-Rabosai,

When I started this thread last year, I meant it to be a place where people could post deals on Shmurah in NYC so that people could buy matza with less "oni."

The debates about whether some are hand shmura or machine shmura, while undoubtedly lshaim shamayim, cause the main intent of the thread to be buried because the matza prices are like 1/4 of the actual posts in the thread.

Is there are a way that this thread can be moved to the Just Shmooze and I can restart a thread which just involves the pricing?

[EJB]

How much does Yanover cost?

[ExGingi]

How much does Yanover cost?

With a Biale Hechsher?

[aygart]

Mods-Rabosai,

When I started this thread last year, I meant it to be a place where people could post deals on Shmurah in NYC so that people could buy matza with less "oni."

The debates about whether some are hand shmura or machine shmura, while undoubtedly lshaim shamayim, cause the main intent of the thread to be buried because the matza prices are like 1/4 of the actual posts in the thread.

Is there are a way that this thread can be moved to the Just Shmooze and I can restart a thread which just involves the pricing?

Part of a price being better is whether or not it is for a comparable product.

[ah giten]

Don’t be flabbergasted.
From a Halachic Standpoint there is nothing wrong with them . They are one hundred percent Avodas Yad Matzos and are Kosher Lchatchila even according to the Divrei Chaim .
Maybe they are not so “traditional”,  but that’s not a Halachic issue .

Well why would the דברי חיים be this matir over that machine matzos in his time?
I think you are wrong, except if you didn't see the דברי חיים, or maybe your talking abt a different דברי חיים..

[ah giten]

Why is the foot powered kneading worse than what they have in Lakewood? (a metal table with a metal pole attached to it)

Because it has some hydraulic power, seems.
And of it has grease for the gears, that is part of the שאלה that the פוסקים assured.