Author Topic: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha  (Read 7362 times)

Offline TonyTomson

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2020, 12:27:36 PM »
I'm not sure I understand, are you saying that the clinician/Shamans beliefs can influence your experience/visions you have while on DMT, how can that be? You are not concious while under the effects of it so how would another individual have the ability of interfering in any way?

You are not fully unconscious either (how will you get your vomit into the bucket?  run to the toilet if you get diarrhea?)

Your mind is extremely open to suggestions both internal and external.

The guide is really a guide.

You definitely want to be sure you trust whoever you choose to participate with.

You do have the option to do it solo and then you are less susceptible to influence. 


Offline Randomex

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2020, 02:10:43 PM »
I invited Tony, so I can vouch for his independent existence (but who can vouch for mine? :D).
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Offline Dan

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2020, 02:14:18 PM »
3. OP has a username that seems to have been created specifically for this thread, in an agenda driven way. Two additional posts in this thread, are from other first time posters who are supposedly subject matter experts on the topic writing in support of the OP. Highly suspicious in my eyes.
IPs all seem to check out as legit.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2020, 03:39:46 PM »
IPs all seem to check out as legit.
Thank You.

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2020, 03:48:47 PM »
1. Why do I get the feeling that OP had a Taavah and is trying to use Avodas Hashem as an excuse to justify it?

2. While there might very well be therapeutic affects to psychedelics, that is only applicable to treat certain conditions. There are numerous examples of medical treatments that could kill a healthy person (RL) but are used to treat terminal illnesses. A distant correlary of this would be (lehavdil) Mei Chatas used to purify someone who is Tmei Meis, it purifies the impure and makes Tamei the pure. What Im saying is that while LSD might help someone whos addicted to Opiates, that doesnt mean it has any therapeutic benefit to a healthy person and might very well be detrimental.

3. OP has a username that seems to have been created specifically for this thread, in an agenda driven way. Two additional posts in this thread, are from other first time posters who are supposedly subject matter experts on the topic writing in support of the OP. Highly suspicious in my eyes.

I have no idea why you get any of the feelings you get, and that includes this one.
I have nothing to do with anyone that has responded to this thread nor do I even know the identity of anyone who has responded.
Amazing that you think I would have an interest in creating accounts to respond to my own posts, you seem to be attempting to come up with reasons to avoid discussion.
What's bothering you about the subject, that`s making you have these suspicions?

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2020, 08:38:41 PM »
I think I made an objective argument upthread why it's illogical that these substances can provide any actual spirituality

Whether or not your argument is true, it's a bold (and slightly offensive) claim to say that it's coming from taaveh.

Unless you say everything we do is somewhat coming from our taavehs...
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

Online gozalim

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2020, 08:58:52 PM »
Whether or not your argument is true, it's a bold (and slightly offensive) claim to say that it's coming from taaveh.

Unless you say everything we do is somewhat coming from our taavehs...
where it's coming from was @AsherO's comment. I argued where it's going. noplace beyond a nice dream

Offline AsherO

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2020, 09:55:06 PM »
What's bothering you about the subject, that`s making you have these suspicions?

The only thing that bothers me is that youre trying trying to suggest this is a tool to help you serve god better. Outside of that, have a safe trip and enjoy.
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Offline Rick Strassman

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2020, 10:24:59 PM »
One is not asleep or in coma during a psychedelic drug experience. What goes on around you determines the nature of your experience, as does your own preparation, intent, how you manage the effects, your state of mind at the time, and so on.

There are therapeutic effects of psychedelics; e.g., treating depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, addictions (alcohol, tobacco, opiates). Explanatory models gets slippery, though. Some believe that "spiritual" experiences brought on by psychedelics are curative, whereas less theological models posit a enhancement of mainstream therapeutic processes, such as  increased contact with emotions.

More slippery are claims that psychedelics "enhance spiritual growth," like meditation practice; or somehow make people "more spiritual." I know of a Jewish congregation that uses DMT-containing ayahuasca during Shabbat services on Friday evenings to increase their concentration, visualization, emotional involvement of their davening.

What is suspicious about my contributing to this thread? I'm neither supporting nor rebuking OP. I'm trying to enlarge the discussion because I've studied it for so long, performed hands-on clinical research with these drugs, and worked hard to understand how psychedelics may contribute to explicating the metaphysics of prophecy.

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2020, 10:28:50 PM »
Thank you Dr. Strassman for your professional perspective.
And thank you mods for reopening and cleaning up the thread to focus on the relevant discussions.
Jury Duty: A time with nothing to do but chill and write a TR. Kinda like the beach without a view and an ocean breeze.

Offline chevron

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #85 on: January 21, 2020, 12:44:10 AM »
One is not asleep or in coma during a psychedelic drug experience. What goes on around you determines the nature of your experience, as does your own preparation, intent, how you manage the effects, your state of mind at the time, and so on.

There are therapeutic effects of psychedelics; e.g., treating depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, addictions (alcohol, tobacco, opiates). Explanatory models gets slippery, though. Some believe that "spiritual" experiences brought on by psychedelics are curative, whereas less theological models posit a enhancement of mainstream therapeutic processes, such as  increased contact with emotions.

More slippery are claims that psychedelics "enhance spiritual growth," like meditation practice; or somehow make people "more spiritual." I know of a Jewish congregation that uses DMT-containing ayahuasca during Shabbat services on Friday evenings to increase their concentration, visualization, emotional involvement of their davening.

What is suspicious about my contributing to this thread? I'm neither supporting nor rebuking OP. I'm trying to enlarge the discussion because I've studied it for so long, performed hands-on clinical research with these drugs, and worked hard to understand how psychedelics may contribute to explicating the metaphysics of prophecy.

Lehavdil, was Just watching the Netflix documentary world war II in color

They say that the German soldiers were taking the equivalent of crystal meth.

Simcha gottleib could shed much on this subject.


Offline chevron

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #86 on: January 21, 2020, 12:47:14 AM »
I'm always looking for a good Shabbat. Where do you live?

Shushan 2

Online skyguy918

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #87 on: January 21, 2020, 11:05:49 AM »
Lehavdil, was Just watching the Netflix documentary world war II in color

They say that the German soldiers were taking the equivalent of crystal meth.

Simcha gottleib could shed much on this subject.
Those were amphetamines, which aren't necessarily hallucinogens
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen
Although hallucinations are a common symptom of amphetamine psychosis, amphetamines are not considered hallucinogens as they are not a primary effect of the drugs themselves. While hallucinations can occur when abusing stimulants, the nature of stimulant psychosis is not unlike delirium.

Re WWII, everyone used them in some capacity, but no one as much as the Nazis. Each part of their military had a different nickname for them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_and_culture_of_substituted_amphetamines#Military_use

Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2020, 10:32:36 PM »
Is Ayahuasca, the same thing being discussed here?
I was just speaking to someone who asked R Dovid Fienstien if it's Avoda Zara, which he said he's not familiar with it. However R Heinman was familiar with it and told him it's not..
The reasoning iiuc is that a root of a plant can't become Assur and also those who worship it are worshipping the spirit/snake behind it not the actual plant

Offline enwhycee

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2020, 11:39:05 PM »
Is Ayahuasca, the same thing being discussed here?

those who worship it are worshipping the spirit/snake behind it not the actual plant

FACT

Lets go ahead and close this thread now.