Author Topic: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha  (Read 9493 times)

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2019, 10:56:07 PM »
Must be on something already because its not friday

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2019, 11:04:20 PM »
Must be on something already because its not friday
Lol
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2019, 01:25:46 AM »
The people that keep comparing LSD to DMT simply dont even know what DMT is but feel super confident about their responses...
Let me explain a few pivotal diffrences, when a person takes DMT they are totally unconcious and appear to be in a sleep like state, when they wake up its effects are gone, nobody walking around like lunatics on DMT the way LSD used.
DMT is not addictive (Physically or pyschologically) or habit forming, studies taken from people that use it found no results of negative side effects, but most users found an increase positive effect in their search for self actualization.
DMT is NOT like acid that gives many people permanent altered perceptions of reality, but rather is only said to sometimes cause issues in users who previously suffered from mental illness but has not been found AT ALL to cause it in the first place.
Synesthesia is something you can experience on DMT which is super fascinating, and being that all negative effects of LSD are eliminated with DMT I thought it maybe worth considering, as someone who does not use drugs and never has used drugs.

Offline bb1836

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2019, 10:59:14 AM »
Once we're on the subject, this conversation happened yesterday (I wonder if the OP had listened to this and that's where he got the idea for this thread).....viewer discretion advised....skip to minute 33:43

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Offline Suave

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2019, 02:17:39 PM »
Has anyone here read the book Cannabis Chassidis? Written by an acquaintance of mine... He discusses some relevant topics.

https://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Chassidis-Ancient-Emerging-Torah/dp/157027262X
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2019, 02:55:52 PM »
Wow, as usual, beautiful and timeless wisdom.



I totally agree with you. I think though that @yzj was more trying to tell the OP to have a true and honest reckoning with himself (this seems like a guy asking) :) about the both the upsides along with possibly profound and permanent downsides?



@Philosophypsychologypsych I totally agree with others that you must ask an actual Sheila to someone who knows you well. Since you did ask here and since it is anonymous, can I ask how old you are? A fifty-year old solidly established family man, who studies Torah, experiencing something like this would be very different than a 25 year old single guy seeking his place in the world. I donít understand the appeal of drugs and alcohol but since I live in Colorado, I know way more than I want about Marijuana. It seems that each day they are discovering more about how detrimental it is to use it before the age of 26 and that it literally arrests your brain development irreversibly, for life. Did these tribes that used this drug have strict taboos that only allowed its use amongst their elders (like we have taboos about learning Kabbalah outside of certain contexts)? Did they have other taboos around it that you may also not know about?

Just some other things to maybe think about...

I believe that the general taboo against Kabbalah these days is one of the most misunderstood, people dont know the backround of when that taboo was initiated and the SPECIFICS of what parts of kabbalah it was in regards too and is simply detrimental and has almost literally caused an important and fundamental part of our holy torah to be forgotten almost in entirety.
The Chesed L`Avraham writes, that these days it is not only Muter but it`s a Mitzvah for EVERYONE young and old to be learn these Inyanim as much as possible, and he then says and i dont take this lightly "And it is in the zchus of learning this subject that will ultimately bring moshiach, and not in ANY OTHER" (his lashon, Vlo Bzchus Acher!!).
In case you are unfamiliar, the Chesed l`avraham is not a random safer, he was was very much revered by all the gedolim of his time, and was the Great-Grandfather of the Chidah.

People hear the word Kabbalah and immediately cringe, picturing names of malachim and the making of a golem, thats like someone hearing the word judaism and responding "Oh thats the thing with the long sidelocks?" from that comment you realize the misconception the person holds, I might be exaggerating a bit, but not by much.
I could go on and on, but I wont, but the mere fact that if someone today (And I mean a Yeshivah Boy like me, more or less ) starts learning the subjects and has deep fundamental questions
it is almost impossible to find any semi mainstream talmid chacham that is qualified to answer such questions, (and im saying this after seeaaarrchhing, more or less anyone in NY,NJ) and yes I listen to R` Efraim goldstein, and R` michel handler and all the current online accessible shiurim in these inyanim, and the only people well versed enough in these subjects are R"L either irreligious or at the very most modern orthodox professors teaching in the Universitys around the US, such has been my experience, and I think its a tremendous Chillul Hashem.

Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2019, 10:44:45 PM »
I believe that the general taboo against Kabbalah these days is one of the most misunderstood, people dont know the backround of when that taboo was initiated and the SPECIFICS of what parts of kabbalah it was in regards too and is simply detrimental and has almost literally caused an important and fundamental part of our holy torah to be forgotten almost in entirety.
The Chesed L`Avraham writes, that these days it is not only Muter but it`s a Mitzvah for EVERYONE young and old to be learn these Inyanim as much as possible, and he then says and i dont take this lightly "And it is in the zchus of learning this subject that will ultimately bring moshiach, and not in ANY OTHER" (his lashon, Vlo Bzchus Acher!!).
In case you are unfamiliar, the Chesed l`avraham is not a random safer, he was was very much revered by all the gedolim of his time, and was the Great-Grandfather of the Chidah.

People hear the word Kabbalah and immediately cringe, picturing names of malachim and the making of a golem, thats like someone hearing the word judaism and responding "Oh thats the thing with the long sidelocks?" from that comment you realize the misconception the person holds, I might be exaggerating a bit, but not by much.
I could go on and on, but I wont, but the mere fact that if someone today (And I mean a Yeshivah Boy like me, more or less ) starts learning the subjects and has deep fundamental questions
it is almost impossible to find any semi mainstream talmid chacham that is qualified to answer such questions, (and im saying this after seeaaarrchhing, more or less anyone in NY,NJ) and yes I listen to R` Efraim goldstein, and R` michel handler and all the current online accessible shiurim in these inyanim, and the only people well versed enough in these subjects are R"L either irreligious or at the very most modern orthodox professors teaching in the Universitys around the US, such has been my experience, and I think its a tremendous Chillul Hashem.

I just jumped into this conversation now, but I definitely think you're making some good points. The taboo is definitely misunderstood, and study of kaballah is largely ignored by most Jews.

If you're writing this, you probably read it already, but if you haven't, definitely read aryeh kaplan's Jewish Meditation, and then Meditation and the Bible. (I personally haven't read the third one, but you can give it a try if you're committed to this.) It's a shame he's not around anymore, but there are definitely contemporaries who can help you with Kabbalah. I read one of Rabbi Dov Ber Pinson's books and it was amazing (even though I'm not chabad).

(As for trying DMT, I definitely wouldn't look at it as a religious experience, but certainly a discovery experience, possibly spiritual.
It definitely sounds exciting, perhaps scary, and definitely crazy. Seems like most of the people here are staunchly against it, but I'm sure that we're all curious to hear your experiences if you do try it. That'll make for some TR.)
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2019, 12:16:05 AM »
I believe that the general taboo against Kabbalah these days is one of the most misunderstood, people dont know the backround of when that taboo was initiated and the SPECIFICS of what parts of kabbalah it was in regards too and is simply detrimental and has almost literally caused an important and fundamental part of our holy torah to be forgotten almost in entirety.
The Chesed L`Avraham writes, that these days it is not only Muter but it`s a Mitzvah for EVERYONE young and old to be learn these Inyanim as much as possible, and he then says and i dont take this lightly "And it is in the zchus of learning this subject that will ultimately bring moshiach, and not in ANY OTHER" (his lashon, Vlo Bzchus Acher!!).
In case you are unfamiliar, the Chesed l`avraham is not a random safer, he was was very much revered by all the gedolim of his time, and was the Great-Grandfather of the Chidah.

People hear the word Kabbalah and immediately cringe, picturing names of malachim and the making of a golem, thats like someone hearing the word judaism and responding "Oh thats the thing with the long sidelocks?" from that comment you realize the misconception the person holds, I might be exaggerating a bit, but not by much.
I could go on and on, but I wont, but the mere fact that if someone today (And I mean a Yeshivah Boy like me, more or less ) starts learning the subjects and has deep fundamental questions
it is almost impossible to find any semi mainstream talmid chacham that is qualified to answer such questions, (and im saying this after seeaaarrchhing, more or less anyone in NY,NJ) and yes I listen to R` Efraim goldstein, and R` michel handler and all the current online accessible shiurim in these inyanim, and the only people well versed enough in these subjects are R"L either irreligious or at the very most modern orthodox professors teaching in the Universitys around the US, such has been my experience, and I think its a tremendous Chillul Hashem.
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what kabala actually is, what the point of it is, and who is actually "supposed to learn it."
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Offline Suave

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2019, 07:40:19 AM »
(As for trying DMT, I definitely wouldn't look at it as a religious experience, but certainly a discovery experience, possibly spiritual.
It definitely sounds exciting, perhaps scary, and definitely crazy. Seems like most of the people here are staunchly against it, but I'm sure that we're all curious to hear your experiences if you do try it. That'll make for some TR.)

I spent some time in the Amazon Jungle last year and was seriously considering writing a TR but I feel a big part of the audience here is not 'conscious' enough to hear me out.

As a side note, I met a (semi famous) Native Indian Chief who told me that he led a peyote ceremony for a 'group of rabbis' from LA...
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Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2019, 09:15:41 AM »
I spent some time in the Amazon Jungle last year and was seriously considering writing a TR

Wow! That's something I'd really want to read
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Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2019, 10:54:48 AM »
I just jumped into this conversation now, but I definitely think you're making some good points. The taboo is definitely misunderstood, and study of kaballah is largely ignored by most Jews.

If you're writing this, you probably read it already, but if you haven't, definitely read aryeh kaplan's Jewish Meditation, and then Meditation and the Bible. (I personally haven't read the third one, but you can give it a try if you're committed to this.) It's a shame he's not around anymore, but there are definitely contemporaries who can help you with Kabbalah. I read one of Rabbi Dov Ber Pinson's books and it was amazing (even though I'm not chabad).

(As for trying DMT, I definitely wouldn't look at it as a religious experience, but certainly a discovery experience, possibly spiritual.
It definitely sounds exciting, perhaps scary, and definitely crazy. Seems like most of the people here are staunchly against it, but I'm sure that we're all curious to hear your experiences if you do try it. That'll make for some TR.)

I have bought every one of Aryeh Kaplans stuff, including the practical guide to jewish meditation, and Meditation and kabbalah, and inner Space, he was truly a genius with a remarkable talent.
BTW, most people dont know but Aryeh kaplan wrote only 1 short safer/kuntrus in HEBREW on Kabbalah/machshavah on primarily tzimtzum and and the Yediah/Bechirah paradox every other one of his 50+ books are english, this hasnt been in print or in circulation for over 20 years, have never seen the actual safer anywhere, but I obtained a pdf file and went through it, it`s called Moreh Ohr, if anyones intrested lmk I can share the file.

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2019, 11:11:45 AM »
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what kabala actually is, what the point of it is, and who is actually "supposed to learn it."

Well I`m more then happy to debate it with you, although my views are in line with all the mainsteam shitos (rather then say for example, the abraham abulafian views) as I have spent a significant amount of time studying it, and I doubt you can say the same, but dont believe you know what my views are in the first place, so lets hear what my never stated views are, in regards to what kabala is, and what the point of it is, then lets see why its wrong and then please enlighten us with the/your truth?

BTW in case your intrested to hear in just a few words what the point of kabala is, the answer is the same as the other parts of torah in the sense that you can be like chasidim who would channel the kabbalah directly into how it relates to their avodas hashem, theres the ramchal that its a way of understanding hashems hanhagah of the briyah, you can use it to understand the real meaning of tfillah as im sure you know the entire davening and pesukei dzimrah was composed based on kabbalistic ideas, (Pesukei dzimra is all just about cutting out the klipos to pave a path for your actual tfilah to ascend undeterred etc..) their is no one point to any other part of torah either. Hafuch va Vhafuch va Dkulah Buh! right??

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2019, 03:44:50 PM »
I have bought every one of Aryeh Kaplans stuff, including the practical guide to jewish meditation, and Meditation and kabbalah, and inner Space, he was truly a genius with a remarkable talent.
BTW, most people dont know but Aryeh kaplan wrote only 1 short safer/kuntrus in HEBREW on Kabbalah/machshavah on primarily tzimtzum and and the Yediah/Bechirah paradox every other one of his 50+ books are english, this hasnt been in print or in circulation for over 20 years, have never seen the actual safer anywhere, but I obtained a pdf file and went through it, it`s called Moreh Ohr, if anyones intrested lmk I can share the file.

Did you read the book Meditation and the Bible?

If you do plan on any spiritual experience outside of Judaism, I would recommend seriously practicing meditation and visualization techniques described by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan an others.

Only if you've been serious In a regiment in these (not just studying Kabbalah, but experiencing Jewish spirituality) and still want more would I recommend going to other places.

Specifically I would recommend (as an introduction) visions of a compassionate world by Menachem ekstien and then Visualization and imagery by Rabbi dov ber pinson.

Your debates about the concepts of Kabbalah is a different discussion to actually doing DMT. That's why I believe that it's important to have spiritual Jewish experiences first, putting aside a scholarly study in Kabbalah.

All in all, I'm still interested in what you would think if you do go ahead with it... It's just something that I wouldn't go for at this time.
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Offline chief_mag

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2019, 04:26:08 PM »
Your debates about the concepts of Kabbalah is a different discussion to actually doing DMT. That's why I believe that it's important to have spiritual Jewish experiences first, putting aside a scholarly study in Kabbalah.


+1
There's a response from the Lubavitcher Rebbe regarding a similar question, not pro the concept of using external influences to further the study of Kaballa & chassidus. I can't find it right now, so I won't (mis)quote it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 04:31:59 PM by chief_mag »

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2019, 07:32:32 PM »
Did you read the book Meditation and the Bible?

If you do plan on any spiritual experience outside of Judaism, I would recommend seriously practicing meditation and visualization techniques described by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan an others.

Only if you've been serious In a regiment in these (not just studying Kabbalah, but experiencing Jewish spirituality) and still want more would I recommend going to other places.

Specifically I would recommend (as an introduction) visions of a compassionate world by Menachem ekstien and then Visualization and imagery by Rabbi dov ber pinson.

Your debates about the concepts of Kabbalah is a different discussion to actually doing DMT. That's why I believe that it's important to have spiritual Jewish experiences first, putting aside a scholarly study in Kabbalah.

All in all, I'm still interested in what you would think if you do go ahead with it... It's just something that I wouldn't go for at this time.

I have it's sitting on the table near my bed, I've read every one of his books more then just once, and don't get me wrong I'm not looking for other spiritualities whatsoever, I'm fully grounded in my yiddishkeit completely, spiritually and philosophically, I'm not actively persuing anything outside yiddishkeit, just meditation which obviously we are both aware is a very Jewish concept as portrayed so clearly by Aryeh Kaplan.
BUT I would be lying if I told you at the end of the day the idea to ACTUALLY have a transcdental experience not a acid trip but a ligit out of body experience the likes of which ppl who almost die attest too (which can be induced at DMT clinic) is still something that excites and boggles my mind to no end, and although it's not practical I keep thinking to myself that one day when I pass through a country that happens to have such clinics, I aught to try for myself just once!
Maybe you've reached the advanced levels of meditation and can reach a transcdental state on your own, if, so lucky you!
But I have not mastered that yet, and until then, this idea of having a real life truly non-physical and unexplainable purely spiritual experience is something I envy!
Something about going through life the way it is, even the best parts of it, even an elated feeling of an intense Torah study session, or a real prayer done with full devotion, to me is still all considered mundane in comparison.
What should I do, It's just some sort of yearning feeling for something Devine and truly spiritual, not so easy to put into words I guess...
But no worries I'm not straying and going outside the religion I am totally grounded in my Judaism.

Offline Philosophypsych

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2019, 07:52:43 PM »
+1
There's a response from the Lubavitcher Rebbe regarding a similar question, not pro the concept of using external influences to further the study of Kaballa & chassidus. I can't find it right now, so I won't (mis)quote it.

I agree. And the original post about wanting to try DMT to have such an experience once, was a long time ago, now I was just discussing the study of kabbla but not that I believe the study of Kabbalah should be along with these foreign influences at all, I agree with what your saying 100% and the quote from the lubavitcher rabbi might have been mentioned quoted actually way back when this article was posted, a comment on the first page or two I believe.

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2019, 07:55:05 PM »
Did you read the book Meditation and the Bible?

If you do plan on any spiritual experience outside of Judaism, I would recommend seriously practicing meditation and visualization techniques described by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan an others.

Only if you've been serious In a regiment in these (not just studying Kabbalah, but experiencing Jewish spirituality) and still want more would I recommend going to other places.

Specifically I would recommend (as an introduction) visions of a compassionate world by Menachem ekstien and then Visualization and imagery by Rabbi dov ber pinson.

Your debates about the concepts of Kabbalah is a different discussion to actually doing DMT. That's why I believe that it's important to have spiritual Jewish experiences first, putting aside a scholarly study in Kabbalah.

All in all, I'm still interested in what you would think if you do go ahead with it... It's just something that I wouldn't go for at this time.

U deff seem to have researched and studied meditation perhaps still practicing as well, I'd love to hear more honestly... :)

Offline chief_mag

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2019, 08:26:14 PM »


I agree with what your saying 100% and the quote from the lubavitcher rabbi might have been mentioned quoted actually way back when this article was posted, a comment on the first page or two I believe.

See them now.

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2019, 10:27:23 PM »
U deff seem to have researched and studied meditation perhaps still practicing as well, I'd love to hear more honestly... :)

I think you probably read more aryeh Kaplan books and about Kabbalah in general. Personally, I feel like most of Kabbalah is well over my head. I do appreciate what I understand and I'm very into meditation, mindfulness, and visualization.

That being said, Rabbi Kaplans books Jewish Meditation and Meditation and the Bible we're game changers for me.
On the practical side, I guess what originally piqued my interest was The Possible You (a seminar by Rabbi Yom Tov Glaser, pricey) which introduced me to breathing methods.
I later had a "mussar Seder" reading visions of a compassionate world. I never really got to be more than a beginner, but it was quite amazing. Im still interested in alternative methods, but anything drug-induced is honestly scary to me. (As a side note I found Ram Dass's story of a therapist who experimented with LSD to be fascinating.)

For now, when I am not in a rush, I use parts of tefillah as a meditative practice, and it makes my davening especially meaningful. I actually have entire notebooks of new pshatim in pesukim and tefillah just from these practices.
I stress tefillah to anyone who is interested in these types of things. (Hence the recommendation to reread rabbi Kaplans Jewish Meditation.) Some of my best tefillos were byechidus because I really had a chance to experience it, something that is kinda hard with a regular quick-ish minyan. (I spoke with rabbanim about davening byechidus for this purpose and got some really interesting perspectives.) For now, this is where my experiences are, although I wish I could do more. This thread inspired me to crack open Jewish Meditation again, so who knows :)
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Offline JuryDuty

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Re: Dimeththyltryptamine (DMT) & Halacha
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2019, 10:28:44 PM »
Oh, and my good friend is a mindfulness expert and a very open minded and thought out Jew, so I consult with him for any questions I have
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