Author Topic: Why do so many people still support the Mir?  (Read 14899 times)

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 08:11:26 PM »
FTFY
no complaining there.
That's not what he wrote though.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 08:29:11 PM »
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2019, 08:48:20 PM »
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.
Sorry buddy, you missed the point.
This isn't about bashing random mosdos.
I'm calling attention to the fact the Mir is UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT. And few people have realized.
If you like the new management, then no problem, go ahead with business as usual.





Offline yitzgar

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2019, 08:53:40 PM »
Sorry buddy, you missed the point.
This isn't about bashing random mosdos.
I'm calling attention to the fact the Mir is UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT. And few people have realized.
If you like the new management, then no problem, go ahead with business as usual.
If you read my post you will notice that I mentioned that there are many mosdos that people donate to that aren't run exactly the way people would want if they knew. It's not your job to "enlighten" us all.

Offline B.D.Da'ehu

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2019, 08:57:10 PM »
If you read my post you will notice that I mentioned that there are many mosdos that people donate to that aren't run exactly the way people would want if they knew. It's not your job to "enlighten" us all.
What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2019, 08:58:32 PM »
What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?
No, I'm pointing out that it's not anyone's business to write what he wrote in the op

Online mmgfarb

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2019, 09:10:09 PM »
No, I'm pointing out that it's not anyone's business to write what he wrote in the op
Why not?
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline AussieMan

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2019, 09:16:45 PM »
The mir of yesteryear also wasn't the mir of r' nochum's days.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2019, 09:21:33 PM »
The mir of yesteryear also wasn't the mir of r' nochum's days.
Absolutely. So if you're looking to support a Yeshiva like Reb Nochums you wouldn't have supported the Mir 30 years ago. Now that there was another makeover...
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline Yammer

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2019, 09:29:23 PM »
Why is it anyone's business what other people donate to. If you don't like it, don't give money. No reason to stop other people. Not to mention the lashon hara that's probably involved here, there are probably many organizations/mosdos/tzedakas that ppl have assumptions about, and the op didn't feel the need to "enlighten" everyone about all of them. He obviously has a bone to pick, and it looks childish and pathetic to do it on a public forum. Plenty of people have been rubbed the wr9ng way by different mosdos, and most do not feel the need to announce it to the world.

+

What exactly is your issue? The Mir had a massive dinner last night and he mentioned they have undergone a significant change that people are not aware of.


You think he now has to make a comprehensive list?


Why not?

The Common denominator is trying to get ppl not to donate to the Mir.

Disclaimer: I never did "the Mir" or know a whole lot about it. But targeting a specific Yeshiva, when this is an issue with 90% of Yeshivas in the World seems like there's a story behind this.


True, they have thousands of people learning all day. But so do Chevron, Ponevezh and many other yeshivos.
And there are American yeshivos in EY like Eichenstein's, Feivelsohns, Rubenstien's, Yagdil, Reb Dovid, Reb Sholom Shechter.....
Why not support them?



Let's see how distraught all these people are when their kids don't get in. They'll regret every penny they ever donated.

I’m asking how dumb can their American donors be?
Why give money today based on the Mir legacy or Reb Nosson Tzvi?

Offline yzj

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2019, 09:54:52 PM »
What’s your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? It’s their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasn’t Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. That’s the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2019, 09:55:36 PM »



Disclaimer: I never did "the Mir" or know a whole lot about it. But targeting a specific Yeshiva, when this is an issue with 90% of Yeshivas in the World seems like there's a story behind this.

I don’t know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך חדש
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 10:12:21 PM by knowitall »

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2019, 10:01:55 PM »
What’s your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? It’s their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasn’t Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. That’s the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.
You’re right all yeshivos change.

Here is different.
They run around talking about how R Nosson Tzvi was so warm, tried to build a kesher with each talmud,cared about each one Talmud like it was his kid, had an open door, and gave everyone a chance.
We’re continuing his legacy....


Offline yzj

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2019, 10:05:19 PM »
I don’t know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך

רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you don’t have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2019, 10:16:54 PM »
רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you don’t have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isn’t directed at the Mir leadership. It’s directed to those that haven’t realized that it’s a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2019, 10:31:24 PM »
Piteous.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2019, 10:31:42 PM »
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isn’t directed at the Mir leadership. It’s directed to those that haven’t realized that it’s a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.
Basically, you're assuming that the people donating don't know that things are different, and that if they knew they wouldn't be donating. Don't know why you'd assume either point.

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2019, 10:36:55 PM »
OK, I usually don't feed the trolls, but I feel without someone giving at least a bit of an answer, it will look like the OP is right.

Disclaimer - OP clearly has a lot of bitterness and anger, and nothing I write can answer or change any of that. I'm sorry for whatever made you feel that way.

First of all, and most of all - hakaras hatov. It may have changed, but the Mir is still the same yeshiva, and those of us who gained from it, owe the yeshiva a tremendous debt of gratitude that no money can ever repay. We also donate because we want to give back, we want to allow other talmidim to have the opportunity of yeshivas Mir - in whatever iteration it currently is.

So - I was in Mir back in R' Nosson Tzvi's days, and while he was alive, changes were made - some I was happy about, others I had more trouble understanding. I spoke to my rebbe at the time, and was able to better understand.

If I was at the point I was 20 years ago, applying to the Mir today, I would probably not get in.

However, the fact remains that the Mir has always been a yeshiva where things are more open, and people can grow at their own pace, from where they are, in their own way. Those of us who were around 15-20 years ago saw the changes when too many people took advantage of that, and the Mir started becoming a place where good bochurim didn't want to go. And so some changes HAD to be made, or the Mir and its legacy would be lost forever - because while they could care less about "top" bochurim, if the good bochurim aren't going there, no one else wants to go either, and the Mire would have lost its ability to give over what it does.

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

If you're looking for a rebbe who will treat you like a child and pretend there's a deep connection when you haven't invested a drop of effort into it, the Mir probably isn't for you.

Finally, despite the fact that the Mir is no longer as opened-doored as it was 20 years ago, it is still, without a doubt, the most diverse of all the mainstream yeshivish yeshivas.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2019, 10:51:10 PM »
Going back to 1989, my family owned some real estate next to the Mir and rented it to a seminary. The Mir took us to Din Torah at the Eidah, how can you bring girls next to a Yeshiva. The Rov at the time, the Minchas Yitzchok, paskened that we should evict the seminary and that Mir should cover the rent. We evicted, and never got a penny. The building sat vacant and we lost control due to property taxes unpaid. The municipality gave it to a new seminary and laughed at the Mir and the Eidah. Today, there are 3 seminary’s on that block. Suffice to say no one in that office dares ask us for tuition or donations ad hayom hazeh. When they offered to honor my uncle at a London dinner he said a big thanks but no thanks...

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2019, 10:53:03 PM »

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

What?
What did you say?
"If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled."

Rabbi Elefant, Rabbi Resnick, Rabbi Wagshal all have shiurim between 50-100 guys, closer to the higher end.
With a shiur that size, it just isn't possible to have a deep connection to each talmud, especially if every year or two its a whole new crop.
Bigger isn't better when it comes to education.