Author Topic: Why do so many people still support the Mir?  (Read 2271 times)

Offline yzj

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2019, 09:54:52 PM »
Whatís your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? Itís their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasnít Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. Thatís the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2019, 09:55:36 PM »



Disclaimer: I never did "the Mir" or know a whole lot about it. But targeting a specific Yeshiva, when this is an issue with 90% of Yeshivas in the World seems like there's a story behind this.

I donít know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך חדש
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 10:12:21 PM by knowitall »

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2019, 10:01:55 PM »
Whatís your goal. To pressure the powers that be to go back to the old ways? Itís their yeshiva now. Get used to it. All yeshivas undergo change. The Chaim Berlin I went to wasnít Rav Hutners. Rav Shneurs BMG was very different than Rav Aharons. And the Mir has had very different leadership and mashgichim over the last 200 years. Thatís the way it goes. 40 years from now I guarantee it will not look anything like today.

You could start this thread for many other organizations and mosdos. Time for you to move on and accept the Mir for what it is m, not for what it was 20 years ago.
Youíre right all yeshivos change.

Here is different.
They run around talking about how R Nosson Tzvi was so warm, tried to build a kesher with each talmud,cared about each one Talmud like it was his kid, had an open door, and gave everyone a chance.
Weíre continuing his legacy....


Offline yzj

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2019, 10:05:19 PM »
I donít know of any other yeshiva that changed as quickly and as drastically, with barely anyone noticing.
This was literally ויקם מלך

רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you donít have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2019, 10:16:54 PM »
רבי אלעזר בן עזריה?
But you donít have to go back to the days of רבן גמליאל.
Study the history of any yeshiva from volohzin and on or any chasiddus. A new leader leads in his own derech. That is the way it has always been.
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isnít directed at the Mir leadership. Itís directed to those that havenít realized that itís a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.

Offline Emkay

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2019, 10:31:24 PM »
Piteous.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2019, 10:31:42 PM »
Let me be clear: every new leader can pick his own derech. But this post isnít directed at the Mir leadership. Itís directed to those that havenít realized that itís a new leader and new derech. Not a continuation of any legacy.
Basically, you're assuming that the people donating don't know that things are different, and that if they knew they wouldn't be donating. Don't know why you'd assume either point.

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2019, 10:36:55 PM »
OK, I usually don't feed the trolls, but I feel without someone giving at least a bit of an answer, it will look like the OP is right.

Disclaimer - OP clearly has a lot of bitterness and anger, and nothing I write can answer or change any of that. I'm sorry for whatever made you feel that way.

First of all, and most of all - hakaras hatov. It may have changed, but the Mir is still the same yeshiva, and those of us who gained from it, owe the yeshiva a tremendous debt of gratitude that no money can ever repay. We also donate because we want to give back, we want to allow other talmidim to have the opportunity of yeshivas Mir - in whatever iteration it currently is.

So - I was in Mir back in R' Nosson Tzvi's days, and while he was alive, changes were made - some I was happy about, others I had more trouble understanding. I spoke to my rebbe at the time, and was able to better understand.

If I was at the point I was 20 years ago, applying to the Mir today, I would probably not get in.

However, the fact remains that the Mir has always been a yeshiva where things are more open, and people can grow at their own pace, from where they are, in their own way. Those of us who were around 15-20 years ago saw the changes when too many people took advantage of that, and the Mir started becoming a place where good bochurim didn't want to go. And so some changes HAD to be made, or the Mir and its legacy would be lost forever - because while they could care less about "top" bochurim, if the good bochurim aren't going there, no one else wants to go either, and the Mire would have lost its ability to give over what it does.

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

If you're looking for a rebbe who will treat you like a child and pretend there's a deep connection when you haven't invested a drop of effort into it, the Mir probably isn't for you.

Finally, despite the fact that the Mir is no longer as opened-doored as it was 20 years ago, it is still, without a doubt, the most diverse of all the mainstream yeshivish yeshivas.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2019, 10:51:10 PM »
Going back to 1989, my family owned some real estate next to the Mir and rented it to a seminary. The Mir took us to Din Torah at the Eidah, how can you bring girls next to a Yeshiva. The Rov at the time, the Minchas Yitzchok, paskened that we should evict the seminary and that Mir should cover the rent. We evicted, and never got a penny. The building sat vacant and we lost control due to property taxes unpaid. The municipality gave it to a new seminary and laughed at the Mir and the Eidah. Today, there are 3 seminaryís on that block. Suffice to say no one in that office dares ask us for tuition or donations ad hayom hazeh. When they offered to honor my uncle at a London dinner he said a big thanks but no thanks...

Offline knowitall

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2019, 10:53:03 PM »

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

What?
What did you say?
"If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled."

Rabbi Elefant, Rabbi Resnick, Rabbi Wagshal all have shiurim between 50-100 guys, closer to the higher end.
With a shiur that size, it just isn't possible to have a deep connection to each talmud, especially if every year or two its a whole new crop.
Bigger isn't better when it comes to education.

Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2019, 11:44:49 PM »
OK, that's exactly my point.

I'll go with R' Elefant, since I know that situation best. As one friend of mine said, "he has a shiur of 80 guys, but he treats every one like a ben yachid."

Any talmid who wants a connection and puts in the effort, gets one. The ones that don't want, or feel it isn't worth waiting in line by night seder to talk to him, or make an appointment to go to his house to talk to him...don't really want a connection.

Offline myi

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2019, 01:22:09 AM »
OK, that's exactly my point.

I'll go with R' Elefant, since I know that situation best. As one friend of mine said, "he has a shiur of 80 guys, but he treats every one like a ben yachid."

Any talmid who wants a connection and puts in the effort, gets one. The ones that don't want, or feel it isn't worth waiting in line by night seder to talk to him, or make an appointment to go to his house to talk to him...don't really want a connection.
Well said, he supposedly has a laptop with every bachur who came into his shuir and wants to know the whereabouts with that bachur, but then again, you can only bring the horse to the water but can't make it drink, so that much rabbi elefant is there, he's reachable and caring for those bachrim who put an effort to be part of the structure in his shuir and speak to him and want to talk to him, but if you run and avoid him,then yes there's no reason rabbi elefant will run after the bachur.
 I know there's an email and lots of other stuff set up for each time rabbi elefant comes to america and has meetings and time slots for each bachur and yungerlight who want to speak in person with him.
 He has an american number aside for the Israeli number so whomever wants to reach him he should be able to be reached. And not to forget the thursday night chill he has with the buchrim with cholent and drinks, and allows the talmidim to ask away with any question their heart desires. As well every Thursday night,really late he has a live conference with his old talmidim in america and gives and shuir to them and makes sure to stay in touch.
 Again this is just one of the few rabbaim that there's in the mir.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 02:00:43 AM by myi »
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2019, 02:17:56 AM »
Lots of misleading and plain false info here which I will not go into for multiple reasons. But keep in mind the OPs point, this is not a Mir bashing thread, and promoting the Mir doesn't address OPs concern
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline stooges44

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2019, 06:13:15 AM »
OK, I usually don't feed the trolls, but I feel without someone giving at least a bit of an answer, it will look like the OP is right.

Disclaimer - OP clearly has a lot of bitterness and anger, and nothing I write can answer or change any of that. I'm sorry for whatever made you feel that way.

First of all, and most of all - hakaras hatov. It may have changed, but the Mir is still the same yeshiva, and those of us who gained from it, owe the yeshiva a tremendous debt of gratitude that no money can ever repay. We also donate because we want to give back, we want to allow other talmidim to have the opportunity of yeshivas Mir - in whatever iteration it currently is.

So - I was in Mir back in R' Nosson Tzvi's days, and while he was alive, changes were made - some I was happy about, others I had more trouble understanding. I spoke to my rebbe at the time, and was able to better understand.

If I was at the point I was 20 years ago, applying to the Mir today, I would probably not get in.

However, the fact remains that the Mir has always been a yeshiva where things are more open, and people can grow at their own pace, from where they are, in their own way. Those of us who were around 15-20 years ago saw the changes when too many people took advantage of that, and the Mir started becoming a place where good bochurim didn't want to go. And so some changes HAD to be made, or the Mir and its legacy would be lost forever - because while they could care less about "top" bochurim, if the good bochurim aren't going there, no one else wants to go either, and the Mire would have lost its ability to give over what it does.

So they adapted, and brought a bit more oversight, but also more warmth. They made changes as needed, and with it more connection with rabbeim. If you're someone who wants to build a real connection with a rebbe, the Mir is unparalleled. The rabbeim will stay in touch with you, and will guide you through life years and years later, regardless of the size of your donations.

If you're looking for a rebbe who will treat you like a child and pretend there's a deep connection when you haven't invested a drop of effort into it, the Mir probably isn't for you.

Finally, despite the fact that the Mir is no longer as opened-doored as it was 20 years ago, it is still, without a doubt, the most diverse of all the mainstream yeshivish yeshivas.

Makes me want to have gone to the mir  :'(
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Offline shwarmabob

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Re: Why do so many people still support the Mir?
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2019, 07:10:24 AM »
Well said, he supposedly has a laptop with every bachur who came into his shuir and wants to know the whereabouts with that bachur, but then again, you can only bring the horse to the water but can't make it drink, so that much rabbi elefant is there, he's reachable and caring for those bachrim who put an effort to be part of the structure in his shuir and speak to him and want to talk to him, but if you run and avoid him,then yes there's no reason rabbi elefant will run after the bachur.
 I know there's an email and lots of other stuff set up for each time rabbi elefant comes to america and has meetings and time slots for each bachur and yungerlight who want to speak in person with him.
 He has an american number aside for the Israeli number so whomever wants to reach him he should be able to be reached. And not to forget the thursday night chill he has with the buchrim with cholent and drinks, and allows the talmidim to ask away with any question their heart desires. As well every Thursday night,really late he has a live conference with his old talmidim in america and gives and shuir to them and makes sure to stay in touch.
 Again this is just one of the few rabbaim that there's in the mir.

That sounds pretty amazing to me, someone who did not go to mir