Author Topic: Lakewood Forest Fire  (Read 39066 times)

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2019, 03:38:52 PM »
Nothing public so I can't help you anymore.
So the answer to this
Was anyone on the record as approving it?
is no?
You could have just said that without all the beating around the bush.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2019, 03:42:20 PM »
So the answer to this is no?

Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event (due to a lack of foresight or naiveté), I doubt it will be made public now.
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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2019, 03:43:09 PM »
Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event, I doubt it will be made public now.
So another planning oversight?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:13 PM »
So the answer to thisis no?
You could have just said that without all the beating around the bush.
No. He did approve it OTR, among others whom took it back once there were threats against the organizer for; Kol Koreis against them, guarantees that they'll never get a job, or that their kids won't get in to schools.
I think focusing on how approved it was before, or if it was planned right is the real bush we're beating around.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:31 PM »
So another planning oversight?

I understand you have 999 ways to defend the ban, but the fact that a kosher kumzitz with rabbinic participation and approval needs to check off all these boxes in order not to get banned is part of the problem.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2019, 03:47:28 PM »
Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event (due to a lack of foresight or naiveté), I doubt it will be made public now.
So another planning oversight?
It WAS made public to those bored souls who met with the organizers asking them to shut it down, as well as with the other Rabanim involved.  They all knew what was on the table.
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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2019, 03:47:43 PM »
I understand you have 999 ways to defend the ban, but the fact that a kosher kumzitz with rabbinic participation needs to check off all these boxes in order not to get banned is part of the problem.
Where did I ever defend a ban? I don't disagree with the second part of what you wrote (assuming the facts are as you present them)
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
Where did I ever defend a ban? I don't disagree with the second part of what you wrote (assuming the facts are as you present them)

I guess I understood all this line of questioning as defense of the ban. I take it back.
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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2019, 03:53:29 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.

Offline simplicity

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2019, 03:58:58 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.
what were the "low life" tactics?

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2019, 04:00:03 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.
He shouldn't, but keep in mind that the rabble-rouser will shop for his macha'a the same way some will shop for approval. That is what causes the need to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed beforehand. Once there is public approval it helps avoid the shopping.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2019, 04:01:26 PM »
I guess I understood all this line of questioning as defense of the ban. I take it back.
I guess you missed this. No problem.
(FTR, there is nothing I have heard about this event which disturbs me and have no clue what the opposition to it was for. I don't know much about it at all other than what is posted here. I only see some poor planning)
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2019, 04:03:30 PM »
what were the "low life" tactics?
No. He did approve it OTR, among others whom took it back once there were threats against the organizer for; Kol Koreis against them, guarantees that they'll never get a job, or that their kids won't get in to schools.
I think focusing on how approved it was before, or if it was planned right is the real bush we're beating around.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2019, 04:16:10 PM »
I just wonder what they told them in order to get the signatures, because it definitely wasn't "They are having a kumzitz and divrai torah"
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2019, 04:34:42 PM »
Any update on this story today?
Anymore protests planned?
Are any askanim trying to help out the bachrim and plan a different event?

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #75 on: April 15, 2019, 04:35:55 PM »
I just wonder what they told them in order to get the signatures, because it definitely wasn't "They are having a kumzitz and divrai torah"
Who says they actually "got" their signatures.... ::)

Offline as2

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #76 on: April 15, 2019, 04:39:36 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something here, but all I've been thinking reading all this is, why the heck do you need anyone's approval to make an event? What is this, 3rd grade?
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #77 on: April 15, 2019, 04:44:50 PM »


Are any askanim trying to help out the bachrim...?
No.
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Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2019, 04:58:58 PM »
There's a audio clip of a phone call going around on WhatsApp between one of the organizers and one of the destructors (for lack of better word)..
It'll shed alot of of light on the situation..

what's the best way to upload it?

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #79 on: April 15, 2019, 05:04:00 PM »
There's a audio clip of a phone call going around on WhatsApp between one of the organizers and one of the destructors (for lack of better word)..
It'll shed alot of of light on the situation..

what's the best way to upload it?
Not sure that's easily doable. But I'm not so sure that should be publicized on such a platform.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch