Author Topic: Lakewood Forest Fire  (Read 8104 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2019, 03:38:52 PM »
Nothing public so I can't help you anymore.
So the answer to this
Was anyone on the record as approving it?
is no?
You could have just said that without all the beating around the bush.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2019, 03:42:20 PM »
So the answer to this is no?

Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event (due to a lack of foresight or naiveté), I doubt it will be made public now.
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Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2019, 03:43:09 PM »
Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event, I doubt it will be made public now.
So another planning oversight?
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:13 PM »
So the answer to thisis no?
You could have just said that without all the beating around the bush.
No. He did approve it OTR, among others whom took it back once there were threats against the organizer for; Kol Koreis against them, guarantees that they'll never get a job, or that their kids won't get in to schools.
I think focusing on how approved it was before, or if it was planned right is the real bush we're beating around.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2019, 03:46:31 PM »
So another planning oversight?

I understand you have 999 ways to defend the ban, but the fact that a kosher kumzitz with rabbinic participation and approval needs to check off all these boxes in order not to get banned is part of the problem.
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Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2019, 03:47:28 PM »
Even if someone explicitly approved it beforehand, if it wasn't made public before the event (due to a lack of foresight or naiveté), I doubt it will be made public now.
So another planning oversight?
It WAS made public to those bored souls who met with the organizers asking them to shut it down, as well as with the other Rabanim involved.  They all knew what was on the table.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2019, 03:47:43 PM »
I understand you have 999 ways to defend the ban, but the fact that a kosher kumzitz with rabbinic participation needs to check off all these boxes in order not to get banned is part of the problem.
Where did I ever defend a ban? I don't disagree with the second part of what you wrote (assuming the facts are as you present them)
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
Where did I ever defend a ban? I don't disagree with the second part of what you wrote (assuming the facts are as you present them)

I guess I understood all this line of questioning as defense of the ban. I take it back.
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Offline yelped

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2019, 03:53:29 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.

Offline simplicity

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2019, 03:58:58 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.
what were the "low life" tactics?

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2019, 04:00:03 PM »
Why should someone need to do all these things to appease kanoim and rabble rousers to avoid a ban? I expect better control from Rabonnim over these false kanoim, especially when they resort to low life tactics. Rabonnim should have control over these kanoim, not the other way around.
He shouldn't, but keep in mind that the rabble-rouser will shop for his macha'a the same way some will shop for approval. That is what causes the need to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed beforehand. Once there is public approval it helps avoid the shopping.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline aygart

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2019, 04:01:26 PM »
I guess I understood all this line of questioning as defense of the ban. I take it back.
I guess you missed this. No problem.
(FTR, there is nothing I have heard about this event which disturbs me and have no clue what the opposition to it was for. I don't know much about it at all other than what is posted here. I only see some poor planning)
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline yelped

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2019, 04:03:30 PM »
what were the "low life" tactics?
No. He did approve it OTR, among others whom took it back once there were threats against the organizer for; Kol Koreis against them, guarantees that they'll never get a job, or that their kids won't get in to schools.
I think focusing on how approved it was before, or if it was planned right is the real bush we're beating around.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2019, 04:16:10 PM »
I just wonder what they told them in order to get the signatures, because it definitely wasn't "They are having a kumzitz and divrai torah"
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Jellybelly

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Re: Lakewood Forest Fire
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2019, 04:34:42 PM »
Any update on this story today?
Anymore protests planned?
Are any askanim trying to help out the bachrim and plan a different event?