Author Topic: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?  (Read 2399 times)

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 06:10:58 PM »
Why is an area of bnei Torah a contradiction to the flag ? Is Ponovezh yeshiva not an area of bnei Torah ?
from the Rav Avigor Miller daily email
Quote
Rav Avigdor Miller on Celebrating Yom Haíatzmaus
Q:
Would a person be allowed to celebrate the fifth of Iyar (Israeli Independence Day), the same way he celebrates the Fourth of July?

A:
The answer is that the Fourth of July has no Jewish connotation; itís a neutral thing. And since itís a demonstration of loyalty to the county where you live, so it certainly is virtuous to hang out a flag on the Fourth of July. I think that all Jews should be interested in demonstrating solidarity with the American people. And especially to thank Hakodosh Boruch Hu that there is such a country that fosters such ideals of liberty which Jews enjoy today.

The fifth of Iyar is a different story entirely. The Medinas Yisroel was founded by atheists. Of course, there was a small handful of maíaminim also. But the vast majority were atheists, and they were extreme left wing radicals. Even today, the first of May is a big day in the State of Israel - because it was all Marxism.

So how can we demonstrate any kind of sympathy with a State that is diametrically opposed to the Torah?! The mere fact that they draft girls into the army is such a horrendous contradiction to Jewish tradition, to Jewish attitudes, that for that alone, every conscientious Jew should feel a tremendous hostility to the State of Israel.

Itís no exaggeration to say that we ought to organize brigades and invade the State of Israel! Now as queer as that will sound to you, thatís the truth. Now, of course we canít do it because there are so many frum Jews who have to be protected today - and thatís our big worry! But the chillul Hashem of drafting girls into the army is unequaled - even among the nations of the world.
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Online pointer

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 06:38:28 PM »
Anyone know if this is true that the KCL told SSSS to take down their Israeli flag?
All you guys giving heat, Do you relize the flag was hung in honor of Israeli independents day?

That's basically agreeing with Zionist Ideology (maybe unintentionally) which you may or  may not agree with,
But I'm sure u'll agree that it is not crazy to hold against.

Offline knowitall

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 06:43:27 PM »
All you guys giving heat, Do you relize the flag was hung in honor of Israeli independents day?

That's basically agreeing with Zionist Ideology (maybe unintentionally) which you may or  may not agree with,
But I'm sure u'll agree that it is not crazy to hold against.
Itís the age old question about kashrus agencies:
Are they overstepping their bounds by having policies regarding WiFi, how late you can be open, what you can call items on your menu, can you explicitly say Treif words like ďSuper Bowl SpecialĒ....

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2019, 06:45:40 PM »
Itís the age old question about kashrus agencies:
Are they overstepping their bounds by having policies regarding WiFi, how late you can be open, what you can call items on your menu, can you explicitly say Treif words like ďSuper Bowl SpecialĒ....
That I agree with. kashrus agencies should only be concerned with kashrus issues, this is where it starts and ends.

Online TimT

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2019, 06:45:50 PM »
All you guys giving heat, Do you relize the flag was hung in honor of Israeli independents day?

That's basically agreeing with Zionist Ideology (maybe unintentionally) which you may or  may not agree with,
But I'm sure u'll agree that it is not crazy to hold against.
To remove a hechsher ? Itís crazy

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 06:48:47 PM »
To remove a hechsher ? Itís crazy
No, no, no!
was talking abt the "hashkafah", which seems to me most people on here where attacking

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2019, 06:55:25 PM »
No, no, no!
was talking abt the "hashkafah", which seems to me most people on here where attacking
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online davidrotts63

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2019, 06:58:00 PM »
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Definitely not I.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2019, 07:08:23 PM »
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Definitely not I.
But definitely them
 
You've got to be flipping kidding me. The next time someone asks me why Moshiach isn't here - I'll print them this article.
I heard Gaza is looking for new members. Seems Lakewood has fallen to the deepest drek of yidishkeit

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2019, 07:09:11 PM »
But definitely them
Not sure what the first one meant, but I addressed the second.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 12:05:41 AM »
where could I get bnei Torah

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2019, 01:03:03 AM »
The Anti-Charedi Govt in Israel has given more money to bnei yeshiva then all of Lakewood combined 100 times over.

The Anti-Charedi Govt has had deals with Chareidi parties in the Knesset for the last 10 years.

The Anti Charedi Govt will have almost a 30% representation by Chaeredim.

Lakewood over the past few years have become more anti-zionist thanks to a certain segment of Judaism that is moving in. So glad that Lakewood is aligning itself with the Left wing Democrats that they have come to love. Maybe soon Lakewood will have the Pride flags flown from the Yeshiva when Bernie Sanders comes to give a shiur.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2019, 01:38:36 AM »
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Yonah

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2019, 09:37:38 AM »
All you guys giving heat, Do you relize the flag was hung in honor of Israeli independents day?

That's basically agreeing with Zionist Ideology (maybe unintentionally) which you may or  may not agree with,
But I'm sure u'll agree that it is not crazy to hold against.

Quote from: yonah
You've got to be flipping kidding me. The next time someone asks me why Moshiach isn't here - I'll print them this article.

Let me quantify two things:
- While I Vehemently disagree with them, I don't think it's unreasonable for some in the frum world to have an issue with the state of Israel (however misguided I think that they are).
- However secular the founders of Medinat Yisroel were, they've allowed for the tremendous growth of torah that now exists, and they built the state with that in mind. For example, we're only arguing about the drafting of yeshiva bochurim because they've been more or less exempt for 70 years

So while I don't agree with those who are anti-Israel, I respect their right to do so, and their right to choose not to shop at a store that supports israel.

Here is what is crazy, and what I feel is true sinas chinam - the KCL's threats to remove the hashgacha because of it.

The kashrus of the food at SSSS didn't change when the flag went up - it's not as if the flag was used as wrapping paper for a crate of bacon that was now being used by sandwiches. It is not as if the flag has special powers that render the mashgiach incapable. It's not as if being a zionist disqualifies the owner from running a kosher establishment - and if it does - the blame should be on the KCL for not having properly vetted the owner before giving him a hashgacha. In fact, if that's the case - i.e. a Tizoni person isn't fit to run a kosher restaurant, and the KCL gave them a hashgacha - then the KCL's vetting process is flawed, and we shouldn't trust ANY establishment that they've given a Hashgacha to, until we verify in beis din that not one of their staff said hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut! .

I am tired of the political BS that creeps up into kashrus. Kashrus should be about the food, but oftentimes kashrus agencies try to flex their muscles to put pressure on the owners of restaurants. It's not just local vaads, but also large organizations. I'm not sure if any of you remember the Pepsi Scandal in Israel in the early 90's or the 'Pizza Mechitza' in flatbush in the late 80's. Then there was the whole Kinder Egg import thing in Israel a few years ago as well.

and before you go off on me about 'the integrity' of kashrus - think about all of the scandals where people with a so-called good hechsher and reputation were playing games and deceiving their customers?

Sorry for the rant, but I am getting worked up, because this hit a chord.




Offline knowitall

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2019, 10:11:17 AM »
Another issue at play here, and also in the canceled kumzitz event is:
Certain peopleís refusal to accept the current reality. Lakewood is no longer a shtetl that is 90% learning guys, where all life revolves around the yeshiva. Where the Rosh Yeshiva calls all the shots in town, and his word is the final say on any matter.
Itís grown, ballooned, and spread out and gotten VERY DIVERSE.