Author Topic: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?  (Read 10106 times)

Offline pointer

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2019, 06:48:47 PM »
To remove a hechsher ? It’s crazy
No, no, no!
was talking abt the "hashkafah", which seems to me most people on here where attacking

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2019, 06:55:25 PM »
No, no, no!
was talking abt the "hashkafah", which seems to me most people on here where attacking
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2019, 06:58:00 PM »
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Definitely not I.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline pointer

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2019, 07:08:23 PM »
Um. No. Nobody thought that was the craziness here.
Definitely not I.
But definitely them
 
You've got to be flipping kidding me. The next time someone asks me why Moshiach isn't here - I'll print them this article.
I heard Gaza is looking for new members. Seems Lakewood has fallen to the deepest drek of yidishkeit

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2019, 07:09:11 PM »
But definitely them
Not sure what the first one meant, but I addressed the second.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline yesitsme

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 12:05:41 AM »
where could I get bnei Torah
["-"]

Offline Proisrael

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2019, 01:03:03 AM »
The Anti-Charedi Govt in Israel has given more money to bnei yeshiva then all of Lakewood combined 100 times over.

The Anti-Charedi Govt has had deals with Chareidi parties in the Knesset for the last 10 years.

The Anti Charedi Govt will have almost a 30% representation by Chaeredim.

Lakewood over the past few years have become more anti-zionist thanks to a certain segment of Judaism that is moving in. So glad that Lakewood is aligning itself with the Left wing Democrats that they have come to love. Maybe soon Lakewood will have the Pride flags flown from the Yeshiva when Bernie Sanders comes to give a shiur.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2019, 01:38:36 AM »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yonah

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2019, 09:37:38 AM »
All you guys giving heat, Do you relize the flag was hung in honor of Israeli independents day?

That's basically agreeing with Zionist Ideology (maybe unintentionally) which you may or  may not agree with,
But I'm sure u'll agree that it is not crazy to hold against.

Quote from: yonah
You've got to be flipping kidding me. The next time someone asks me why Moshiach isn't here - I'll print them this article.

Let me quantify two things:
- While I Vehemently disagree with them, I don't think it's unreasonable for some in the frum world to have an issue with the state of Israel (however misguided I think that they are).
- However secular the founders of Medinat Yisroel were, they've allowed for the tremendous growth of torah that now exists, and they built the state with that in mind. For example, we're only arguing about the drafting of yeshiva bochurim because they've been more or less exempt for 70 years

So while I don't agree with those who are anti-Israel, I respect their right to do so, and their right to choose not to shop at a store that supports israel.

Here is what is crazy, and what I feel is true sinas chinam - the KCL's threats to remove the hashgacha because of it.

The kashrus of the food at SSSS didn't change when the flag went up - it's not as if the flag was used as wrapping paper for a crate of bacon that was now being used by sandwiches. It is not as if the flag has special powers that render the mashgiach incapable. It's not as if being a zionist disqualifies the owner from running a kosher establishment - and if it does - the blame should be on the KCL for not having properly vetted the owner before giving him a hashgacha. In fact, if that's the case - i.e. a Tizoni person isn't fit to run a kosher restaurant, and the KCL gave them a hashgacha - then the KCL's vetting process is flawed, and we shouldn't trust ANY establishment that they've given a Hashgacha to, until we verify in beis din that not one of their staff said hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut! .

I am tired of the political BS that creeps up into kashrus. Kashrus should be about the food, but oftentimes kashrus agencies try to flex their muscles to put pressure on the owners of restaurants. It's not just local vaads, but also large organizations. I'm not sure if any of you remember the Pepsi Scandal in Israel in the early 90's or the 'Pizza Mechitza' in flatbush in the late 80's. Then there was the whole Kinder Egg import thing in Israel a few years ago as well.

and before you go off on me about 'the integrity' of kashrus - think about all of the scandals where people with a so-called good hechsher and reputation were playing games and deceiving their customers?

Sorry for the rant, but I am getting worked up, because this hit a chord.




Offline knowitall

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2019, 10:11:17 AM »
Another issue at play here, and also in the canceled kumzitz event is:
Certain people’s refusal to accept the current reality. Lakewood is no longer a shtetl that is 90% learning guys, where all life revolves around the yeshiva. Where the Rosh Yeshiva calls all the shots in town, and his word is the final say on any matter.
It’s grown, ballooned, and spread out and gotten VERY DIVERSE.

Offline Eliyohu

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2019, 10:17:40 AM »
In KCLs own words that their hasgacha is mainly on the person.. this whole thing kinda actually makes sense...

Offline Luvisrael

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Offline yitzgar

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2019, 11:02:51 AM »
Is there confirmation as to whether kcl was involved at all, and if they were, did they threaten to pull the hashgacha?

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 11:05:42 AM »
In KCLs own words that their hasgacha is mainly on the person.. this whole thing kinda actually makes sense...
A person flying the Israeli flag loses his chezkas kashrus??
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline aygart

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2019, 11:08:11 AM »
Is there confirmation as to whether kcl was involved at all, and if they were, did they threaten to pull the hashgacha?
http://matzav.com/exclusive-the-inside-story-behind-the-request-to-remove-israeli-flag-from-ssss-in-lakewood/
Quote
Matzav.com confirmed that claims that the KCL would pull its hashgacha from the establishment if the store did not adhere to the request are false.

“The KCL agency would not pull one’s kashrus supervision for this reason,” the source confirmed, refuting claims on websites and social media to the contrary.

GreaterLakewood.com confirmed it is true now...
LOL
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dave321

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2019, 11:13:50 AM »
Is there confirmation as to whether kcl was involved at all, and if they were, did they threaten to pull the hashgacha?

CONFIRMED NOT CONFIRMED YES. Its all fake.

I dont see the issue here. KCL wants to cater to ALL of lakewood and if some people have an issue with it they asked for him to take it down. (yes if he was threatened to pull the hasgacha then different story). but it seems like they asked the owner, and he shouldve just done it so as not to alienate people. once this is all over, hes going to get the name of not listening to KCL which will make alot of people not either- hasgacha or not. so is he thinking about his business or just trying to be the martyr?

Offline Dan

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2019, 11:15:27 AM »
Is there confirmation as to whether kcl was involved at all, and if they were, did they threaten to pull the hashgacha?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline TimT

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2019, 11:16:07 AM »
CONFIRMED NOT CONFIRMED YES. Its all fake.

I dont see the issue here. KCL wants to cater to ALL of lakewood and if some people have an issue with it they asked for him to take it down. (yes if he was threatened to pull the hasgacha then different story). but it seems like they asked the owner, and he shouldve just done it so as not to alienate people. once this is all over, hes going to get the name of not listening to KCL which will make alot of people not either- hasgacha or not. so is he thinking about his business or just trying to be the martyr?
The people who have an issue with it probably never step foot in there anyway

Offline Dave321

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2019, 11:17:09 AM »
when ssss moved to his new space, he put up a tv for sports games. he was told he has 24 hours to remove it or done. yes there are the rabble rousers who want him to go against KCL and stick it to the town, but if he wants to survive he needs to play by the rules- whether he agrees or not.

thats like someone moving to lakewood and wearing red nail polish, shaitel down to the knees and mini skirt, screaming that they dont care. good luck getting your kids into school.

Offline Dave321

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2019, 11:19:57 AM »
The people who have an issue with it probably never step foot in there anyway

wrong wrong wrong. yes maybe the people who care about the flag, but i would say most wont eat in a store where the owner goes directly against the hashgacho he holds. then come the questions, if thats what he does, what else??

on most of the facebook chats, i would say prob 95% are not from lakewood. so they can scream all they want, but they dont know the situation. they have wacky suggestions such as GET STAR K OR OU. cmon it woulndt last a week with those hechshers in lakewood.