Author Topic: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?  (Read 3630 times)

Offline sky121

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2019, 01:06:54 PM »
That's what pretty much this whole thread has been about. Did you read it?
Lol.  Yup.  I was basically just agreeing with everybody.  It was a very rhetorical question.
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Offline cmey

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Online stooges44

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2019, 01:38:29 PM »
Is hanging the Israeli flag against KCLís rules ? If yes, thatís something they definitely told him as soon as he applied for their hechsher & they have every right to threaten him. But if itís not on their rules list they shouldnít be bowing down to every shmoe who gets too easily offended.

Online avromie7

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2019, 01:39:33 PM »
KCL give a hechsher on the person. They absolutely need to control the individual responsible.
They don't have a mashgiach temidi
If they give him a hechsher, they believe he's trustworthy. If they feel he did something to lose that trust, forcing him to do as they say shouldn't help.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline chevron

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2019, 01:42:38 PM »
It's why i don't use hashgacha for wine dinners.

I've had a mashgiach go crazy about non mevushal wine @jj10O0 was there.

We did a dinner in a private house and the mashgiach made the chef crazy in his face all evening.

Neemanus is critical. But controlling the establishment is not realistic. Maybe 100 year's ago in the alte heim it was.

In general I avoid frum Jews as much as possible, just lifetime of trauma of people harassing me for how I dress, books I read etc .

On the other hand, eida chareudit badatz I'd expect to be strict.

Online stooges44

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2019, 01:46:50 PM »
It's why i don't use hashgacha for wine dinners.

I've had a mashgiach go crazy about non mevushal wine @jj10O0 was there.

We did a dinner in a private house and the mashgiach made the chef crazy in his face all evening.

Neemanus is critical. But controlling the establishment is not realistic. Maybe 100 year's ago in the alte heim it was.

In general I avoid frum Jews as much as possible, just lifetime of trauma of people harassing me for how I dress, books I read etc .

On the other hand, eida chareudit badatz I'd expect to be strict.

DDF is crawling with them
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Offline sguitarist18

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2019, 02:39:03 PM »
LOL.

BUt on the point of what kashrus polices or doesn't...I think it's a question of degree - I've heard people say the hashgacha is on the food, and they have no right to interfere with any other aspect.

On the other hand, I can see the perspective that a rabbi has to feel comfortable with the establishment - I would expect a reliable hashgacha to pull their hechsher if there were belly dancers at a restaurant.

Not equating that with the israeli flag at all - just saying that it's not all or nothing, there needs to be nuance.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2019, 03:02:16 PM »
Losing one's hechsher over a flag aside, why put out a flag if it will bother people in the community? I doubt it helps longterm business and it seems spiteful.

It's kind of like neturei karta bothering people at an Israeli parade.

Being nice goes both ways. Don't attack someone for putting out a flag, but don't either put it out if it will bother people.
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Offline sky121

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2019, 03:10:59 PM »
Losing one's hechsher over a flag aside, why put out a flag if it will bother people in the community? I doubt it helps longterm business and it seems spiteful.

It's kind of like neturei karta bothering people at an Israeli parade.

Being nice goes both ways. Don't attack someone for putting out a flag, but don't either put it out if it will bother people.
It's not like that at all.  Netura Karta going specifically to a place to stick negativity in isn't the same thing as an owner putting a flag on his own place where you can choose to go to or not.
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Offline LoLo

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #70 on: May 10, 2019, 03:15:33 PM »
The KCL might've wanted to protect their own brand here, thinking that people might stop relying on them if a store under their supervision hung an Israeli flag.

Offline moko

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #71 on: May 10, 2019, 03:25:46 PM »
The KCL might've wanted to protect their own brand here, thinking that people might stop relying on them if a store under their supervision hung an Israeli flag.
there are far better reasons not to rely on kcl
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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2019, 03:54:22 PM »
The KCL might've wanted to protect their own brand here, thinking that people might stop relying on them if a store under their supervision hung an Israeli flag.
The Lakewood oilam would stop trusting their hechsher because of the Israeli flag ? Not the oilam Iíve known for decades.
Is this rabbi Weisner a satmarer ?

Offline EliJelly

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Re: Lose Your Hechsher In Lakewood If You Fly An Israeli Flag?
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2019, 03:59:47 PM »
The Lakewood oilam would stop trusting their hechsher because of the Israeli flag ? Not the oilam Iíve known for decades.
Is this rabbi Weisner a satmarer ?
Lakewood is moving towards the right, following the Oirbach's in Israel. Being more "Kenuisdig" has become now the new trend, for many reasons.

Offline dealben

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Re: Re: Lakewood NJ Master Thread
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2019, 04:02:41 PM »

So while I don't agree with those who are anti-Israel, I respect their right to do so, and their right to choose not to shop at a store that supports israel.

Here is what is crazy, and what I feel is true sinas chinam - the KCL's threats to remove the hashgacha because of it.

The kashrus of the food at SSSS didn't change when the flag went up - it's not as if the flag was used as wrapping paper for a crate of bacon that was now being used by sandwiches. It is not as if the flag has special powers that render the mashgiach incapable. It's not as if being a zionist disqualifies the owner from running a kosher establishment - and if it does - the blame should be on the KCL for not having properly vetted the owner before giving him a hashgacha. In fact, if that's the case - i.e. a Tizoni person isn't fit to run a kosher restaurant, and the KCL gave them a hashgacha - then the KCL's vetting process is flawed, and we shouldn't trust ANY establishment that they've given a Hashgacha to, until we verify in beis din that not one of their staff said hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut! .

+1