Author Topic: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality  (Read 9689 times)

Online Boruch999

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #330 on: June 03, 2019, 09:18:54 AM »
What on earth does abortion have to do with associating sex and procreation? Obviously, Halacha has opinions on contraception (which is a far more complicated area than abortion). But even in situations where Halacha might discourage contraception , I can't imagine anyone saying it applies to Bnai Noach. Plan B is simply a form of contraception. I can't see Halacha treating it any differently than any other form of oral birth control.

You are in agreement with him.  Someone said
Being anti Plan B is a purely Christian idea.

which I think we all agree is not strictly true, as
I can't see Halacha treating it any differently than any other form of oral birth control.



Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #331 on: June 03, 2019, 09:37:18 AM »
Unless you meant to say that considering Plan B as abortion is a Christian idea.
This is what I meant. That the pro-life lobby that is also anti Plan B is coming from a Christian mindset.
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #332 on: June 03, 2019, 09:41:01 AM »
Yes but so much of the anti-abortion lobby is purely Christian. Catholics have zero tolerance for abortion even for saving the life of the mother. No one is trying to regulate based on halacha, nor should we be advocating for that.
So how should we advocate for regulation? Halacha tells us what to consider a fetus, not anything or anyone else. To be clear, I am anti abortion regulation, but not because I believe that it's ok in most instances. The problem with coming up with arbitrary situations when abortion is ok and when it isn't ok is exactly that, it's arbitrary.
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Offline saw50st8

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #333 on: June 03, 2019, 01:23:52 PM »
So how should we advocate for regulation? Halacha tells us what to consider a fetus, not anything or anyone else. To be clear, I am anti abortion regulation, but not because I believe that it's ok in most instances. The problem with coming up with arbitrary situations when abortion is ok and when it isn't ok is exactly that, it's arbitrary.

We should advocate for regulations that help reduce unwanted pregnancies and reduce the situations where people feel like they cannot afford them.  That naturally reduces abortions.

Many people who are pro-choice (myself included) don't necessarily support people aborting for no reason but think that should be left between a woman and her doctor to work out.

I don't think we should regulate things that get in the way of religion because we are a minority. It doesn't end well if you pick a religion to regulate. I will consult my own Rabbi should I have a question on abortion. I can only do that if they are legal.

Is this true? It doesn't seem so clear cut.

I think the catholic position is that you cannot actively abort a fetus to save a mother's life. I started googling and it seems fairly accurate although I did discover this group:

https://www.catholicsforchoice.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/TruthaboutCatholicsandAbortion.pdf

I don't know where they fall within Catholicism so that very well may be the "reform" position so to speak. Like everything else, it seems to depend who you ask.

Offline Shkop

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #334 on: June 03, 2019, 05:10:49 PM »
We should advocate for regulations that help reduce unwanted pregnancies and reduce the situations where people feel like they cannot afford them.  That naturally reduces abortions.

Many people who are pro-choice (myself included) don't necessarily support people aborting for no reason but think that should be left between a woman and her doctor to work out.

I don't think we should regulate things that get in the way of religion because we are a minority. It doesn't end well if you pick a religion to regulate. I will consult my own Rabbi should I have a question on abortion. I can only do that if they are legal.
I quite frankly find your watered-down Judaism nauseating. You call yourself pro-choice. That means something. Pro-choice means advocating for legalized abortion.

Then you pivot to not wanting to actively regulate abortion, which means you aren't really pro-choice. You don't want religion involved because we are a minority (an absurd idea) but of-course we really should advocate to minimize unwanted pregnancies. 

Sorry, but Judaism isn't based on wishy-washy, half-baked ideas. Frum Jews always abhorred pro-choice which means advocating for freedom to murder at the flip of a dime. Healthy frum Jews also don't have an inferiority complex so they don't view the fact that they are a minority as a reason not to advocate for their rights.
 
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Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #335 on: June 03, 2019, 06:00:36 PM »
I quite frankly find your watered-down Judaism nauseating. You call yourself pro-choice. That means something. Pro-choice means advocating for legalized abortion.

Then you pivot to not wanting to actively regulate abortion, which means you aren't really pro-choice. You don't want religion involved because we are a minority (an absurd idea) but of-course we really should advocate to minimize unwanted pregnancies. 

Sorry, but Judaism isn't based on wishy-washy, half-baked ideas. Frum Jews always abhorred pro-choice which means advocating for freedom to murder at the flip of a dime. Healthy frum Jews also don't have an inferiority complex so they don't view the fact that they are a minority as a reason not to advocate for their rights.
 
Quite frankly, you have lost the ability to both, see what someone here actually means with their post, and to respond with an actual thought out response which is coherently put into words.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy

Offline Shkop

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Re: Thoughts on abortion, religion, and morality
« Reply #336 on: June 03, 2019, 06:29:15 PM »
Quite frankly, you have lost the ability to both, see what someone here actually means with their post,
I should be deciphering a hidden meaning? He/she wrote that he/she is pro choice and that we should not regulate things that get in the way of religion because we are a minority. Awful ideas.

and to respond with an actual thought out response which is coherently put into words.
Noting incoherent with what I wrote.
A democracy is a form of government, not an intrinsic truth