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ExGingi posted link to an interview (full text copied here) with Rabbi Zushe Posner (who has been an educator for over 50 years) in English version of the Beis Moshiach magazine. Rabbi Posner unique style, of demanding of himself (and others) intellectual honesty, even when it gets uncomfortable was dubbed truth shock jock by gozalim.

In response to the OP, Yard sale asserted it to be "Undiluted kefira". In response to an inquiry by ExGingi, Yard sale brought two quotes from the interview to ostensibly prove his point, but brought no argument as to why said statements would qualify as "Undiluted kefira". ExGingi asked if his claim is because he believes that Tzimtzum is to be interpreted literally (צמצום כפשוטו). To which Yard sale tried to argue that "above quote is clearly not referring to Tzimtzum dilo kipshshuto the way ein sof is extant in you, me, and my pet rabbit. It is clearly referring to the Rebbe specifically in a unique way, as is evident from the continuation of the article."

As to the second quote ostensibly claimed to be Kefira, some tried to explain what a Rebbe is, while ExGingi disclaimed all such explanations quoting from the interview "...if I could explain it, well then that’s not a Rebbe." While for the first quote ExGingi offered a simplistic English explanation saying that "Once we understand ... that עולם is a concealment of the true being, then if something (or someone) is less of a concealment, then the true being appears "more present" in it (or through it)."

At a certain point Yard sale seemed to start retreating or slightly mellow down the tone from his original statement/accusation.

At that point doodle interjected in response to ExGingi's quote that we cannot really explain the situation, positing that "Or you were plain wrong . The Rebbe is not Moshiach. He never said he was anyway . It would have been amazing if he was , but he wasn’t ... Intellectual honesty and openness of thought is important."

ExGingi being always ready for an honest intellectual challenge (though not always having the time for a timely response) fully agrees with the demand for Intellectual Honesty (later claiming that this might be the main point Rabbi Posner was actually trying to bring across in the interview) and followed up with the challenges:
  • "How well versed are you in the Rebbe's talks and writings (to be able to say that he "never said he was")?
  • How well versed are you in the topics of גאולה and משיח from Jewish sources? From Chassidus? From the Rebbe's teachings?"

doodle jumped right at the first challenge, asking whether ExGingi "say(s) the Rebbe said he's moshiach? If yes, from where?" to which ExGingi responds that he is unaware of the explicit words being ever said by the Rebbe, but claims a propensity of material authorized for publication by the Rebbe implies that it would be intellectually dishonest to say that "the Rebbe "never said he was"."

chinagel requested clarification from ExGingi whether he is "of the opinion that the Rebbe held he was moshiach? Do you still think he must be moshiach?" To which ExGingi's terse response was "yes and yes".

In an interesting twist, Yard sale himself then brought a Hebrew quote that offers the same explanation that ExGingi offered earlier to the עצמות ומהות מלובש בגוף statement.

Dan decided to interject with a link to Wikipedia (which was then quoted by Yard sale) alleging that the Rebbe clearly told a journalist that he is not Moshiach, and that said interchange is recorded. [said "proof" is quoted by Wikipedia referencing an exchange between Tomer Persiko and Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, Persiko (who isn't quoted in current thread) offers a response to Rabbi Rapoport, but rather than going that route ExGingi, being honest and open minded searched for same recording to no avail, and challenged all to come up with it. chbochur reports that he inquired with various contacts at JEMedia (which Rabbi Rapoport alleges holds such recording) and none seem to be aware of such, he then reached out to Rabbi Rapoport himself who said he needs to dig it up, we patiently await it.]

With a few more questions thrown about, to which others might have offered some responses, at a certain point ExGingi said that he is "waiting for responses to my questions/inquiries before I publicly respond to others."

After some noisy nonsense introduced by none other than our dear friend CBC (what a surprise) who was given undue credibility by aygart, Yehuda57 offered a response to the ostensibly Kefira statement brought in the interview "if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila". Yehuda57's response has several parts, first and foremost he asks whether "those people stop putting on tefillin?" And then went on to say that "perhaps there is just a slight chance they were saying extreme things as "shock jocks" in order to make a seperate point which may or may not have been excusable in context but appears blasphemous typed out coldly 30 years later?" after some additional noise from CBC and followup by aygart, Yehuda57 added that "if you are working on a premise that it is possible a Lubavitcher could believe that any reason at all is enough to make him stop putting on tefillin, then we have nothing to discuss."

When aygart responded to that with pleasure in finding out that said premise is flawed, he asked "how is one supposed to take such a statement?" ExGingi replied with an allegation that accepting such a baffling statement כפשוטו when referring to people whom you know to be שומרי תומ"צ, indicates a lack of Yiras Shomayim. While Yehuda57 went into a little more detail and another example, stating that if on'es "baseline, like others here, is that Chabad = kefira, no amount of contextualizing will change that, to the point that you could absurdly say Chabad hides their true beliefs."

After some more noise, the בעל אכסניא offered his regular english explanation of the עצמות ומהות מלובש בגוף statement, while separately making disparaging comments about the magazine where it was quoted. A third time must have been the charm, along with a disparaging comment about the source by Dan, and seemingly נחה דעתו of R' Yard sale.

After some additional back and forth noise regarding various "factions" within Lubavitch, Yard sale gave the thread an interesting turn, acknowledging that "It’s easy to smugly look down on others but the  Litvaks have their own problems; last I checked צפיה לישועהis also one of the י״ג עיקרים yet few of them take moshiach seriously. Sure we give lip service to the idea multiple times a day, but who is really interested in giving up all the good stuff we have here? It’s like some foreign concept that most of us espouse  מן השפה ולחוץ." Dan made some serious allegations about how he heard friends in non-Chabad school talking and from there discussion went OT about school vs home education, including proper attitude towards emphasis of שכר ועונש and attitude towards non-Jews.
« Last edited by ExGingi on July 14, 2019, 05:56:55 PM »

Author Topic: BM Magazine Articles  (Read 11975 times)

Offline ExGingi

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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Yard sale

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Offline ExGingi

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2019, 11:58:52 PM »
Undiluted kefira
Just because you say so?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline joey89

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 12:24:11 AM »
How does one mute a thread for 24 hours

Offline Yard sale

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2019, 12:25:03 AM »
Just because you say so?

It’s kefirah. Take my word for it.

“Atzmus Ein Sof enclothed itself in a physical body and speaks Yiddish, English and Russian in order to be mekarev Jews to Judaism”

“But it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body, because if that were possible, I don’t need a Rebbe, because I have Moshe Rabbeinu. The ispashtusa of Moshe in every generation is in a physical body, otherwise, they lied to us. R’ Yoel Kahn said that if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila “

Offline chinagel

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2019, 12:39:06 AM »
Can you post the text?
filter blocks it

Offline ExGingi

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2019, 12:42:58 AM »
It’s kefirah. Take my word for it.

“Atzmus Ein Sof enclothed itself in a physical body and speaks Yiddish, English and Russian in order to be mekarev Jews to Judaism”

“But it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body, because if that were possible, I don’t need a Rebbe, because I have Moshe Rabbeinu. The ispashtusa of Moshe in every generation is in a physical body, otherwise, they lied to us. R’ Yoel Kahn said that if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila “
I take the Rebbe's word.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline whYME

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2019, 12:48:34 AM »
It’s kefirah. Take my word for it.
lol

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2019, 12:50:38 AM »
Can you post the text?
filter blocks it
Quote
An interview with R’ Zushe Posner is not a conventional interview. It’s more like a farbrengen-style conversation. When R’ Zushe shares what’s on his mind and heart, he lays it out on the table, even if what he says might annoy someone. It’s not that he’s looking to anger anyone. It’s that it hurts him and his sometimes-shocking style is the way he chooses to cry out, as the Rebbe says, “When it hurts, you cry out.”

This might be the reason he is the perfect person for this interview, held days before Gimmel Tammuz, a day that shakes up every Chassid, a day of supernatural occurrences, from “Be silent, sun in Givon” in the time of Yehoshua, and down to our days, the hechste tzait on the one hand, and an utterly unconventional situation on the other hand.

From the deepest recesses of his heart and soul he screamed and still screams, using the same words, for fifty years. T’mimim who learned by him in Lud and B’nei Brak in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 00’s, 10’s, heard and hear the very same words.

He asked and asks that we care about the Rebbe, that the Rebbe’s state should be something that we care about, that we understand that we exist for the Rebbe and the Rebbe does not need us, but he wants us. That we put our head into the maamer and not the maamer into our head. To him, the Rebbe is the Rebbe, and not, G-d forbid, some tzaddik, kadosh and tahor.

You don’t understand? That is also part of the multifaceted personality of R’ Zushe. “A Lubavitcher knows that he does not understand everything and he doesn’t have an answer to every question.”

What is he himself? “I’m a Lubavitcher; not a Chabadnik.”

A REBBE WITHOUT A BODY – IMPOSSIBLE

How are you, R’ Zushe?

There are a few times a year that I am completely crazy. One of them is now, the days before Gimmel Tammuz. I often ask people, “Tzimtzum k’peshuto (literal) or tzimtzum lo k’peshuto (not literal)?” In Chassidus it explains that the tzimtzum (constriction) that Hashem made in the Ohr Ein Sof (Infinite Light) so there would be room for worlds, is not a literal tzimtzum; it just seems that way to created beings.

I get a variety of answers, including clever wisecracks and plays on the words, but they are afraid to say what it says in Tanya, that “tzimtzum – lav k’peshuto.” Why? Because then I will ask, and what happened on Gimmel Tammuz? He will have to say, I don’t know! And a Chabadnik who grew up on chochma, bina, and daas, cannot say he does not know!

Tell me, is it possible to live in a world without a physical Rebbe? Because if it’s possible, if I don’t need a Rebbe in a physical body, then I have Moshe Rabbeinu, so what do I need the Rebbe for in addition?

So how do you explain the situation we have today?

On 12 Tammuz 5717/1957, I was in yeshiva in Lud. It was a Thursday night, and I had nothing to do … I saw a booklet about what happened the week of Yud Shevat 5710 after the funeral. It said that when they returned from the cemetery, they davened Maariv and the Rebbe said that Chassidim don’t eulogize but they tell stories. So, after every tefilla I will tell something from the Rebbe [Rayatz]. One of the things said there, and I haven’t found it since, because they left it out due to instructions from above … (I don’t see it in the Hisvaaduyos but there are other versions in other places):

“Atzmus Ein Sof enclothed itself in a physical body and speaks Yiddish, English and Russian in order to be mekarev Jews to Judaism …”

What is Atzmus? There is the story of R’ Zalman Moshe who was sitting next to R’ Moshe Gurary, the great maskil, and asked him to explain Atzmus. R’ Moshe said it was impossible because if you give an explanation, it is no longer Atzmus. But when R’ Zalman Moshe latched on to something or someone … Half an hour later, R’ Moshe gave in and he wanted to explain something. So the story goes that R’ Zalman Moshe gave him a slap, “You want to give an explanation about Atzmus?!”

So what is a Rebbe and how can we explain what happens with him? I cannot explain what a Rebbe is because a Rebbe is not a tzaddik, kadosh and tahor, although those are lofty things. But a Rebbe, if I could explain it, well then that’s not a Rebbe.

There is a famous story about R’ Shmuel Gurary who was in some town where everyone told the miracles of his Rebbe and they asked him to tell a story too. He said that he wanted to travel to a certain city and the Rebbe told him to go to a different city and he went and lost all his money. The miracle was that he remained a Chassid of the Rebbe. I ask – says R’ Zushe – whose miracle is it, his or the Rebbe’s?

On Shabbos Parshas B’Haalos’cha we read about “the 600,000 raglei ha’am (people) in whose midst I am.” We, the people, are the feet of the Rebbe, and maybe we don’t want this, but the Rebbe says, “in whose midst I am” – I won’t let you go. That we have a beard, tzitzis, t’fillin etc., is a miracle of the Rebbe, “the people in whose midst I am.”

NOT TO WANT MOSHIACH BECAUSE I WILL BENEFIT

Talmidim who learned by R’ Zushe in yeshivos Tomchei T’mimim Lubavitch, know his style and remember his heartfelt farbrengens, even if at the time they did not fully appreciate the message. There is something he regularly says, “Yechi anachnu” (may we live). He quotes what the Rebbe said on 28 Nissan 5751, that if they cried Ad Mosai genuinely, Moshiach would have come already.

“When do you cry out?” he asks. “When it hurts. And if you don’t cry out, that shows that it does not hurt. It doesn’t hurt anymore. What hurts most people is a problem at the bank or a problem with the kids. Moshiach doesn’t hurt. And if it hurts that we don’t see the Rebbe, it’s because of the giluyim that we miss.

“I personally need two things that have no connection to one another. I need my wife to be well and I need Moshiach. Two unconnected things.”

Then what is your reason for wanting Moshiach?

It should be good for every Jew, without any connection to Moshiach. And Moshiach doesn’t need to wait so we have it good. That’s not Moshiach. You need to want Moshiach because the Rebbe wants Moshiach, because that is what we should want, because the world was created for Moshiach. For the same reason I put on t’fillin. Because that is what is written.

After the Rebbe said all the birurim were taken care of, some people asked me, “What do we need to do now (i.e., what is the purpose of our mitzvos if we are not involved in refining the world anymore)?” I said, two things: First, there is the story of the Baal Shem Tov who was told from heaven that he has no share in the World to Come and he was satisfied, because that allowed him to serve Hashem without an agenda. Also, it says “And bind them as a sign on your arm,” and not because of all sorts of reasons. You say the bracha because you need to do so, because that’s what it says in Shulchan Aruch, but you need to know there is a G-d. All the holiness of the Shulchan Aruch is that there is a G-d and this is the Torah of G-d.

They say that when the Rebbe Rashab sat with the Chafetz Chaim, the Chafetz Chaim said that he saw eidele faces on the T’mimim. The Rebbe Rashab said it was because they learned Chassidus. The Chafetz Chaim said he would bring Chassidus into his yeshiva and the Rebbe smiled. The Rebbe Rayatz asked him why he smiled and he said, because if there is no Rebbe, there is no Chassidus. That means, there is no Chassidus without the Rebbe.

Because it’s the same thing. The holiness of Chassidus is that there is a Rebbe. Just like if there is no G-d, there is no Torah. Because the Rebbe’s essence is Atzmus, so it’s the same thing.

THE PROBLEM IS MINE, NOT THE REBBE’S

There are those who treat Gimmel Tammuz like Yud Shevat …

After 3 Tammuz 5754, they came to me and asked, what now? I told them, if you say that 3 Tammuz is like 10 Shevat, then it’s on one condition, that you go all the way and that means you need to find another Rebbe.

And what about when bachurim from yeshiva and people from the community and people you were in touch with outside of Chabad asked you, what did you explain to them?

I didn’t explain anything. I had nothing to say. One of the bizarre things is that Chabadnikim know everything. They have an explanation for everything. I don’t! In Chabad, everything is black and white, they have an opinion and explanation for everything. I don’t belong to that. I belong to Lubavitch and know how to say that I don’t know.

Still, what did you tell the bachurim?

I can’t tell anyone what to think or feel.

If you’ll say that what happened is exactly what occurred on 10 Shevat 5710, I was there in 770. They sent me to announce the histalkus in Brownsville, where most Chabad Chassidim lived at the time. I knew Chassidim who were there on 2 Nissan 5689 (the passing of the Rebbe Rashab), who knew Chassidim who were there on 13 Tishrei 5643 (the passing of the Rebbe Maharash), and I can tell you and guide you in just what you need to do.

Or, 3 Tammuz was not like 10 Shevat, 2 Nissan, and 13 Tishrei, and then, we have a problem. 3 Tammuz is the personal problem of every one of us. I don’t know and I don’t understand, but it’s not the Rebbe’s problem! The Rebbe has no problem. I have a problem with the situation, I don’t know what happened, I don’t know exactly how to explain it, because I never experienced anything like this before.

But it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body, because if that were possible, I don’t need a Rebbe, because I have Moshe Rabbeinu. The ispashtusa of Moshe in every generation is in a physical body, otherwise, they lied to us. R’ Yoel Kahn said that if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila …

THE REBBE KNOWS EVERYTHING BUT WANTS TO HEAR FROM US

When did Chassidim start writing to the Rebbe – did the Chassidim of the Alter Rebbe write to him?

It says so, in the introduction to Tanya. And there are many stories about Chassidim who went to the Rebbe and brought letters of Chassidim with them.

In the Rebbe’s letters we see that he encourages writing to him.

I once got a letter from the Rebbe in which the Rebbe writes, “Although I haven’t received a letter from you in a long time, sometimes by not writing one can know more than from the writing …”

Meaning?

You need to write to the Rebbe even though he knows everything. Due to the normal order of things, you need to write. There is a system of nature in place, and Hashem wants us to write letters to the Rebbe.

WRITING TO THE REBBE IN RUSSIA

Someone who keeps the shiurim and does whatever he is supposed to, goes on mivtzaim, conducts himself according to halacha etc., what does he lack if he doesn’t write to the Rebbe regularly but just once or twice a year?

When and how much are up to the individual. There are many things the Rebbe said about writing a lot, and as far as the Rebbe’s time, we are not to worry about that. Just write. That doesn’t mean that I write; writing is hard for me.

You need to write and the Rebbe wants us to write. The problem is where to send the letters. That’s also a matter of hergesh.

Those who want to write to the Rebbe and put the letter into the Igros Kodesh have a precedent. In Russia, they would put letters into sifrei Chassidus.

My grandson, Mendy Naparstek, whose wife is the great-grandchild of R’ Chaim Shaul Bruk, told me after we did the shidduch with them, that she writes to the Rebbe through the Igros Kodesh about everything she does. The first answer she got about the shidduch was the letter sent to me. In the Igros it’s published without my name. And in that letter it says to look into shidduchim.

If someone were to ask you now whether to ask the Rebbe about medical matters, when some say to ask a rofeh-yedid and others say to write to the Rebbe and there are dozens of stories for both approaches, what do you say is the right thing to do?

To write to the Rebbe the good things too, but you need to write everything. What should you do with the letter? Put it wherever you want, in the Igros Kodesh, in a Tanya, wherever you want, the main thing is the writing. They say that as soon as you write the letter, the Rebbe receives it. The act of mailing it is just part of the normal way of the world, because from our perspective “tzimtzum k’peshuto” and it’s what the Rebbe wants. In any case, as far as nowadays, everyone should do according to his hergesh.

WRITING TO THE REBBE IS AN INHERENT PART OF BEING A CHASSID

So the focus should be on the writing and not necessarily on the response?

In 5727, I had yechidus and the Rebbe asked me: Did you place a tzetel on the tziyun?

I said, I gave a letter to the Rebbe.

The Rebbe asked: Were you at the tziyun?

I said yes.

Did you read the maaneh lashon?

I said yes.

Then the Rebbe said, in the maaneh lashon it says that you need to read the note at the tziyun.

I said, I brought the note to the Rebbe!

The Rebbe looked at me and asked when I was returning to Eretz Yisroel. When I said I was flying in two days, the Rebbe said: Fine, you won’t manage to get it done by the day after tomorrow, but submit the note to the secretaries and when I will be at the tziyun, I will take the note and read it.

What are you telling us with this story?

That I went to the tziyun because you’re supposed to go, but I gave the note to the Rebbe. I submitted a note to the secretaries – did the Rebbe read the note at the tziyun or not, I don’t care. You need to write because a Chassid needs to write, it’s an integral part of the hiskashrus of a Chassid to the Rebbe.

True, you want an answer from the Rebbe, but the main thing is to know there is a Rebbe, not to make the insertion into the Igros Kodesh conditional on receiving an answer. We are in a difficult, bitter state, the Rebbe should come already! These are such subtle issues that whatever you will say will never be totally correct…

THE HISGALUS WILL HAPPEN RIGHT ON TIME

Don’t we have traditions about how Chassidim dealt with things in the past? This is not the first time that Chassidim are dealing with things like these …

There is the story about R’ Mendel who wrote to the Rebbe Rayatz in his mind and the Rebbe sent an actual letter saying he received his letter. But then, whoever was near the Rebbe, saw the Rebbe, but now, nobody sees the Rebbe. It’s a problem. There was never such a problem.

Chassidim in the past knew how to cope. What do we do today? When will the Rebbe come?

I’ll tell you when. I don’t know exactly which day, but I think I can tell you in what situation… When did the Jewish people leave Egypt? It was the last second before entering the fiftieth level … The Rebbe is looking at us and watching us play on, and the moment that our situation becomes critical… then it will stop…

In our current situation, the main thing we need to concern ourselves with is that it should happen now, because the current situation is intolerable. And the Rebbe will reveal himself

How does one mute a thread for 24 hours
Lol
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline Boruch999

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2019, 02:51:45 AM »
I take the Rebbe's word.

The Rebbe said he was Aztmus ein sof?

Offline ExGingi

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2019, 02:10:33 PM »
It’s kefirah. Take my word for it.

The only words I can take from you, not knowing who you are or what your background is, are those that reflect on you.

When you come out with a blanket statement saying
Undiluted kefira

on an interview with someone who is probably more than twice your age, has been involved in Chinuch for more than 5 decades and has hundreds of talmidim that look up to him, quote his Rebbe who is probably the most influential Torah Yid (with that influence being in spreading and increasing Torah and Mitzvos amongst Yidden, and Tikun Oilam amongst non-Jews - as recently as within the last 2 weeks at the UN general assembly) to walk on this earth in the last 70 years, without even bothering to offer your own arguments (are you trying to argue that Tzimtzum is כפשוטו?), gets me to wonder where you might have learned such.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yard sale

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2019, 03:55:17 PM »
The only words I can take from you, not knowing who you are or what your background is, are those that reflect on you.

When you come out with a blanket statement saying
on an interview with someone who is probably more than twice your age, has been involved in Chinuch for more than 5 decades and has hundreds of talmidim that look up to him, quote his Rebbe who is probably the most influential Torah Yid (with that influence being in spreading and increasing Torah and Mitzvos amongst Yidden, and Tikun Oilam amongst non-Jews - as recently as within the last 2 weeks at the UN general assembly) to walk on this earth in the last 70 years, without even bothering to offer your own arguments (are you trying to argue that Tzimtzum is כפשוטו?), gets me to wonder where you might have learned such.

The above quote is clearly not referring to Tzimtzum dilo kipshshuto the way ein sof is extant in you, me, and my pet rabbit. It is clearly referring to the Rebbe specifically in a unique way, as is evident from the continuation of the article.

90% of those reading this probably don’t know the meaning of ein sof, tzimtzum kipshuto, and dilo kipshuto, but if they asked their mashpi’im, Rabbanim, and manhigim, they would be told that the contention of the article-  “ it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body“ and therefore the Rebbe is still necessarily here in a physical body- is big time kefira every bit as much a believing in the Eucharist- that the bread and wine is actually yoshkes body....

Offline doodle

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2019, 04:09:37 PM »
The above quote is clearly not referring to Tzimtzum dilo kipshshuto the way ein sof is extant in you, me, and my pet rabbit. It is clearly referring to the Rebbe specifically in a unique way, as is evident from the continuation of the article.

90% of those reading this probably don’t know the meaning of ein sof, tzimtzum kipshuto, and dilo kipshuto, but if they asked their mashpi’im, Rabbanim, and manhigim, they would be told that the contention of the article-  “ it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body“ and therefore the Rebbe is still necessarily here in a physical body- is big time kefira every bit as much a believing in the Eucharist- that the bread and wine is actually yoshkes body....
Well Said !!
Salt Is Good

Offline zh cohen

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2019, 04:26:37 PM »
The above quote is clearly not referring to Tzimtzum dilo kipshshuto the way ein sof is extant in you, me, and my pet rabbit. It is clearly referring to the Rebbe specifically in a unique way, as is evident from the continuation of the article.

90% of those reading this probably don’t know the meaning of ein sof, tzimtzum kipshuto, and dilo kipshuto, but if they asked their mashpi’im, Rabbanim, and manhigim, they would be told that the contention of the article-  “ it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body“ and therefore the Rebbe is still necessarily here in a physical body-

You are putting words into Rabbi Posner's mouth. Nowhere in this article did he say the bolded part. What he said is that the situation we are in now doesn't make sense and that he doesn't know the answers.

There is plenty to criticize my dear Uncle for, but don't blame him for what other people say.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2019, 04:34:01 PM »
You are putting words into Rabbi Posner's mouth. Nowhere in this article did he say the bolded part. What he said is that the situation we are in now doesn't make sense and that he doesn't know the answers.

There is plenty to criticize my dear Uncle for, but don't blame him for what other people say.

 That’s what he seems to be saying. When he is saying it doesn’t make sense, what he seems to be referring to is not the possibility of the Rebbe no longer being in a physical  form, but rather the fact that the Rebbe is in a physical body yet we do not see any physical body, and we know he was buried. Here is the full quote:

“But it is not possible to have a generation without a living Rebbe in a physical body, because if that were possible, I don’t need a Rebbe, because I have Moshe Rabbeinu. The ispashtusa of Moshe in every generation is in a physical body, otherwise, they lied to us. R’ Yoel Kahn said that if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila …”
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 04:44:55 PM by Yard sale »