Topic Wiki

ExGingi posted link to an interview (full text copied here) with Rabbi Zushe Posner (who has been an educator for over 50 years) in English version of the Beis Moshiach magazine. Rabbi Posner unique style, of demanding of himself (and others) intellectual honesty, even when it gets uncomfortable was dubbed truth shock jock by gozalim.

In response to the OP, Yard sale asserted it to be "Undiluted kefira". In response to an inquiry by ExGingi, Yard sale brought two quotes from the interview to ostensibly prove his point, but brought no argument as to why said statements would qualify as "Undiluted kefira". ExGingi asked if his claim is because he believes that Tzimtzum is to be interpreted literally (צמצום כפשוטו). To which Yard sale tried to argue that "above quote is clearly not referring to Tzimtzum dilo kipshshuto the way ein sof is extant in you, me, and my pet rabbit. It is clearly referring to the Rebbe specifically in a unique way, as is evident from the continuation of the article."

As to the second quote ostensibly claimed to be Kefira, some tried to explain what a Rebbe is, while ExGingi disclaimed all such explanations quoting from the interview "...if I could explain it, well then that’s not a Rebbe." While for the first quote ExGingi offered a simplistic English explanation saying that "Once we understand ... that עולם is a concealment of the true being, then if something (or someone) is less of a concealment, then the true being appears "more present" in it (or through it)."

At a certain point Yard sale seemed to start retreating or slightly mellow down the tone from his original statement/accusation.

At that point doodle interjected in response to ExGingi's quote that we cannot really explain the situation, positing that "Or you were plain wrong . The Rebbe is not Moshiach. He never said he was anyway . It would have been amazing if he was , but he wasn’t ... Intellectual honesty and openness of thought is important."

ExGingi being always ready for an honest intellectual challenge (though not always having the time for a timely response) fully agrees with the demand for Intellectual Honesty (later claiming that this might be the main point Rabbi Posner was actually trying to bring across in the interview) and followed up with the challenges:
  • "How well versed are you in the Rebbe's talks and writings (to be able to say that he "never said he was")?
  • How well versed are you in the topics of גאולה and משיח from Jewish sources? From Chassidus? From the Rebbe's teachings?"

doodle jumped right at the first challenge, asking whether ExGingi "say(s) the Rebbe said he's moshiach? If yes, from where?" to which ExGingi responds that he is unaware of the explicit words being ever said by the Rebbe, but claims a propensity of material authorized for publication by the Rebbe implies that it would be intellectually dishonest to say that "the Rebbe "never said he was"."

chinagel requested clarification from ExGingi whether he is "of the opinion that the Rebbe held he was moshiach? Do you still think he must be moshiach?" To which ExGingi's terse response was "yes and yes".

In an interesting twist, Yard sale himself then brought a Hebrew quote that offers the same explanation that ExGingi offered earlier to the עצמות ומהות מלובש בגוף statement.

Dan decided to interject with a link to Wikipedia (which was then quoted by Yard sale) alleging that the Rebbe clearly told a journalist that he is not Moshiach, and that said interchange is recorded. [said "proof" is quoted by Wikipedia referencing an exchange between Tomer Persiko and Rabbi Chaim Rapoport, Persiko (who isn't quoted in current thread) offers a response to Rabbi Rapoport, but rather than going that route ExGingi, being honest and open minded searched for same recording to no avail, and challenged all to come up with it. chbochur reports that he inquired with various contacts at JEMedia (which Rabbi Rapoport alleges holds such recording) and none seem to be aware of such, he then reached out to Rabbi Rapoport himself who said he needs to dig it up, we patiently await it.]

With a few more questions thrown about, to which others might have offered some responses, at a certain point ExGingi said that he is "waiting for responses to my questions/inquiries before I publicly respond to others."

After some noisy nonsense introduced by none other than our dear friend CBC (what a surprise) who was given undue credibility by aygart, Yehuda57 offered a response to the ostensibly Kefira statement brought in the interview "if the Rebbe, G-d forbid … then we can stop putting on t’fillin, chalila". Yehuda57's response has several parts, first and foremost he asks whether "those people stop putting on tefillin?" And then went on to say that "perhaps there is just a slight chance they were saying extreme things as "shock jocks" in order to make a seperate point which may or may not have been excusable in context but appears blasphemous typed out coldly 30 years later?" after some additional noise from CBC and followup by aygart, Yehuda57 added that "if you are working on a premise that it is possible a Lubavitcher could believe that any reason at all is enough to make him stop putting on tefillin, then we have nothing to discuss."

When aygart responded to that with pleasure in finding out that said premise is flawed, he asked "how is one supposed to take such a statement?" ExGingi replied with an allegation that accepting such a baffling statement כפשוטו when referring to people whom you know to be שומרי תומ"צ, indicates a lack of Yiras Shomayim. While Yehuda57 went into a little more detail and another example, stating that if on'es "baseline, like others here, is that Chabad = kefira, no amount of contextualizing will change that, to the point that you could absurdly say Chabad hides their true beliefs."

After some more noise, the בעל אכסניא offered his regular english explanation of the עצמות ומהות מלובש בגוף statement, while separately making disparaging comments about the magazine where it was quoted. A third time must have been the charm, along with a disparaging comment about the source by Dan, and seemingly נחה דעתו of R' Yard sale.

After some additional back and forth noise regarding various "factions" within Lubavitch, Yard sale gave the thread an interesting turn, acknowledging that "It’s easy to smugly look down on others but the  Litvaks have their own problems; last I checked צפיה לישועהis also one of the י״ג עיקרים yet few of them take moshiach seriously. Sure we give lip service to the idea multiple times a day, but who is really interested in giving up all the good stuff we have here? It’s like some foreign concept that most of us espouse  מן השפה ולחוץ." Dan made some serious allegations about how he heard friends in non-Chabad school talking and from there discussion went OT about school vs home education, including proper attitude towards emphasis of שכר ועונש and attitude towards non-Jews.
« Last edited by ExGingi on July 14, 2019, 05:56:55 PM »

Author Topic: BM Magazine Articles  (Read 54615 times)

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #160 on: July 11, 2019, 10:12:50 AM »
The fun thing about *someone else's* שיטות, is that it's pronounced the same in Hebrew and English.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67599
  • Total likes: 16910
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #161 on: July 11, 2019, 10:15:06 AM »
starts name calling (CBC style)
You and CBC are the DDF kanoim. Don't be shy about it.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67599
  • Total likes: 16910
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #162 on: July 11, 2019, 10:17:21 AM »
So if there are two "factions" the other one is extremist fringe.  ::)

אלע שרייען רבי און מיינען זיך. (For some reason I can see some idiot taking this to mean something else than it means).  And אלו ואלו בצפצוף מצפצפים.
Don't forget to correct Benny that these guys are actually not extremists:
http://crownheights.info/communal-matters/590043/r-yoel-kahan-farbrengen-interrupted-hoodlums/
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #163 on: July 11, 2019, 11:28:40 AM »
Fascinating that you are saying that the views expressed in the mag are problematic to most chabadskers etc. So apparently even within chabad, some of you know that there are others who's beliefs are so far beyond the 13 ikrim.. it's just a matter of degree... (And all of it is "too deep to articulate in plain English").

Now if you think about it, I'm sure you can better understand why the rest of Torah Judaism sees virtually all of the chabbad belief system as contradictory to the ikrim.

It’s easy to smugly look down on others but the  Litvaks have their own problems; last I checked צפיה לישוע is also one of the י״ג עיקרים yet few of them take moshiach seriously. Sure we give lip service to the idea multiple times a day, but who is really interested in giving up all the good stuff we have here? It’s like some foreign concept that most of us espouse  מן הספה ולחוץ.

There are several versions of the story, I think I saw it mentioned about the מאור עינים:

אדמו"ר התארח פעם על שולחנם של בני זוג כפריים, והחל לשוחח עימם על אודות ביאת המשיח. "הבה נתפלל יחד שהמשיח יבוא", הציע לבני הזוג. כסבור היה הרבי שתפילה זכה של אנשים פשוטים יכולה לחולל נפלאות, אבל לכפרי היו תכניות אחרות. הוא נמלך ברעייתו, ולבסוף הגיב: "רֶבֶּ'ה, המשיח זה רעיון רע. יש לנו משק מכניס, עם לולי תרנגולות שמטילות ביצים, ורפת של פרות שמניבות חלב. המשיח יאלץ אותנו לעזוב הכל ויעלה אותנו לארץ ישראל. במחילה, רֶבֶּ'ה, שיעשה טובה המשיח, ויגנוז את התכניות שלו".

הרבי נדהם. הוא ניסה לשכנע את בני הזוג בדרך אחרת: "נכון", אמר להם, "יש לכם רפת ולולים ותרנגולים. אבל מפעם לפעם מגיעים הקוזקים הגויים, והם בוזזים וחומסים לכם הכל. זה סבל גדול עבורכם. נזק של ממש. כשיבוא המשיח, כבר לא יהיו קוזקים. כדאי לכם!"

שוב נמלך הכפרי בכפריתו הנבערת, ולאחר דקות ארוכות של התלחשות, חזרו השניים אל הרבי כשבפיהם החלטה גאונית: "הרבי", אמרו, "תתפלל שהמשיח ייקח את הקוזקים לארץ ישראל וישאיר אותנו כאן עם הפרות והתרנגולות. זה הכי טוב".

אח, נאנח האדמו"ר. אני חשבתי שקשה להוציא את היהודים מהגלות – עכשיו התברר לי שקשה שבעתיים להוציא את הגלות מתוך היהודים


Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3863
  • Total likes: 388
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #164 on: July 11, 2019, 11:30:11 AM »
It’s easy to smugly look down on others but the  Litvaks have their own problems; last I checked צפיה לישוע is also one of the י״ג עיקרים yet few of them take moshiach seriously. Sure we give lip service to the idea multiple times a day, but who is really interested in giving up all the good stuff we have here? It’s like some foreign concept that most of us espouse  מן הספה ולחוץ.

There are several versions of the story, I think I saw it mentioned about the מאור עינים:

אדמו"ר התארח פעם על שולחנם של בני זוג כפריים, והחל לשוחח עימם על אודות ביאת המשיח. "הבה נתפלל יחד שהמשיח יבוא", הציע לבני הזוג. כסבור היה הרבי שתפילה זכה של אנשים פשוטים יכולה לחולל נפלאות, אבל לכפרי היו תכניות אחרות. הוא נמלך ברעייתו, ולבסוף הגיב: "רֶבֶּ'ה, המשיח זה רעיון רע. יש לנו משק מכניס, עם לולי תרנגולות שמטילות ביצים, ורפת של פרות שמניבות חלב. המשיח יאלץ אותנו לעזוב הכל ויעלה אותנו לארץ ישראל. במחילה, רֶבֶּ'ה, שיעשה טובה המשיח, ויגנוז את התכניות שלו".

הרבי נדהם. הוא ניסה לשכנע את בני הזוג בדרך אחרת: "נכון", אמר להם, "יש לכם רפת ולולים ותרנגולים. אבל מפעם לפעם מגיעים הקוזקים הגויים, והם בוזזים וחומסים לכם הכל. זה סבל גדול עבורכם. נזק של ממש. כשיבוא המשיח, כבר לא יהיו קוזקים. כדאי לכם!"

שוב נמלך הכפרי בכפריתו הנבערת, ולאחר דקות ארוכות של התלחשות, חזרו השניים אל הרבי כשבפיהם החלטה גאונית: "הרבי", אמרו, "תתפלל שהמשיח ייקח את הקוזקים לארץ ישראל וישאיר אותנו כאן עם הפרות והתרנגולות. זה הכי טוב".

אח, נאנח האדמו"ר. אני חשבתי שקשה להוציא את היהודים מהגלות – עכשיו התברר לי שקשה שבעתיים להוציא את הגלות מתוך היהודים
Why is that a litvak problem vs. everyone else?

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #165 on: July 11, 2019, 12:08:09 PM »
Why is that a litvak problem vs. everyone else?
How do you know that even those who are busy all day with moshiach aren't simply doing more lip service? Why does some story about some villagers show anything about Litvaks anyhow? How would ypou know whether it is lipservice or sincere?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 12:17:32 PM by aygart »
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #166 on: July 11, 2019, 12:17:16 PM »
Don't forget to correct Benny that these guys are actually not extremists:
http://crownheights.info/communal-matters/590043/r-yoel-kahan-farbrengen-interrupted-hoodlums/
So you're going with the "everyone who disagrees with me is part of the extremist fringe" argument?

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #167 on: July 11, 2019, 12:18:11 PM »
So you're going with the "everyone who disagrees with me is part of the extremist fringe" argument?
Why would he be the only exception?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #168 on: July 11, 2019, 12:29:21 PM »
How do you know that even those who are busy all day with moshiach aren't simply doing more lip service? Why does some story about some villagers show anything about Litvaks anyhow? How would ypou know whether it is lipservice or sincere?

There are no guarantees, and I’m sure that there are many in Chabad who are just doing more frequent lip-service than non-Chabad (I didn’t mean litvak), but the fact that the word moshiach is barely in our everyday lexicon is telling, and fairly disturbing. In part this may be due to the tendency among many to bash the whole movement like CBC almost to the point that moshiach becomes associated with something that “we don’t hold of” which is a hashkafic problem in its own right.

 The story is just very relatable, as all one has to do is open up the latest glossy weekly advertising circular and see what is going on, to realize that many of us wouldn’t articulate it that way, but we would also rather have our “sheep and goats and chickens”, and ship moshiach off to Yerushalayim.

Offline chinagel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 3863
  • Total likes: 388
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #169 on: July 11, 2019, 12:35:16 PM »
There are no guarantees, and I’m sure that there are many in Chabad who are just doing more frequent lip-service than non-Chabad (I didn’t mean litvak), but the fact that the word moshiach is barely in our everyday lexicon is telling, and fairly disturbing. In part this may be due to the tendency among many to bash the whole movement like CBC almost to the point that moshiach becomes associated with something that “we don’t hold of” which is a hashkafic problem in its own right.

 The story is just very relatable, as all one has to do is open up the latest glossy weekly advertising circular and see what is going on, to realize that many of us wouldn’t articulate it that way, but we would also rather have our “sheep and goats and chickens”, and ship moshiach off to Yerushalayim.
It’s easy to smugly look down on others but the  Litvaks have their own problems; last I checked צפיה לישוע is also one of the י״ג עיקרים yet few of them take moshiach seriously. Sure we give lip service to the idea multiple times a day, but who is really interested in giving up all the good stuff we have here? It’s like some foreign concept that most of us espouse  מן הספה ולחוץ.

I'm confused, is this specifically a Non-Chabad problem or not?

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #170 on: July 11, 2019, 12:43:41 PM »
There are no guarantees, and I’m sure that there are many in Chabad who are just doing more frequent lip-service than non-Chabad (I didn’t mean litvak), but the fact that the word moshiach is barely in our everyday lexicon is telling, and fairly disturbing. In part this may be due to the tendency among many to bash the whole movement like CBC almost to the point that moshiach becomes associated with something that “we don’t hold of” which is a hashkafic problem in its own right.

 The story is just very relatable, as all one has to do is open up the latest glossy weekly advertising circular and see what is going on, to realize that many of us wouldn’t articulate it that way, but we would also rather have our “sheep and goats and chickens”, and ship moshiach off to Yerushalayim.
There is a not insignificant number of ads about how you can get sheep and goats and chickens in yerushalayim as well. Not sure why you feel that it is not in the lexicon.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67599
  • Total likes: 16910
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #171 on: July 11, 2019, 12:46:41 PM »
I can't recall hearing the word Moshiach while in the litvishe elementary school I went to, other than to make fun of Chabad or the Rebbe.

I have non chabad friends who openly say that they don't beleive moshiach is a real concept. You would never hear a Lubavitcher speak like that.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #172 on: July 11, 2019, 12:52:10 PM »
I can't recall hearing the word Moshiach while in the litvishe elementary school I went to, other than to make fun of Chabad or the Rebbe.

Not my experience other than maybe the focus being more on גאולה שלימה than on moshiach. Every single speech at every bar mitzva and sheva brachos as well as shmoozing and events etc ends with mention of geulah. No discussion of when it will come or who it is at all other than of hope that right away. Very machmir on תפח רוחם של מחשבי קיצין
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3078
  • Total likes: 1277
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #173 on: July 11, 2019, 12:53:48 PM »
I can't recall hearing the word Moshiach while in the litvishe elementary school I went to, other than to make fun of Chabad or the Rebbe.

I have non chabad friends who openly say that they don't beleive moshiach is a real concept. You would never hear a Lubavitcher speak like that.
Not sure about your friends, but I would say that even if lack of צפיתה לישועה is a problem among some Jews, it isn't a beshita. It may be partially because of reaction to those who went overboard with moshiach etc, but that isn't really the point. Either way, nobody is saying that everyone is perfect, all parts of klal yisroel have nisyonos, everyone may be different, but we are here to work on those things. The question at hand is a particular shita and whether it is institutionalized or just a fringe. Not sure why this is an opportunity to bring out other people's flaws as well.

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7712
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #174 on: July 11, 2019, 12:59:15 PM »
There are no guarantees, and I’m sure that there are many in Chabad who are just doing more frequent lip-service than non-Chabad (I didn’t mean litvak), but the fact that the word moshiach is barely in our everyday lexicon is telling, and fairly disturbing. In part this may be due to the tendency among many to bash the whole movement like CBC almost to the point that moshiach becomes associated with something that “we don’t hold of” which is a hashkafic problem in its own right.

 The story is just very relatable, as all one has to do is open up the latest glossy weekly advertising circular and see what is going on, to realize that many of us wouldn’t articulate it that way, but we would also rather have our “sheep and goats and chickens”, and ship moshiach off to Yerushalayim.

You might be on to something. I actually think that you are somewhat like minded with Rabbi Posner (despite your original responses to the interview - and take my word for it). Take my word.  ;)

As a matter of fact, in case anyone missed it, THAT seems to be his main point. He is expecting from himself intellectual honesty, and that same intellectual honesty is what leads him to say that he has no answers to certain questions. His term for those that seem to have all the answers "Chabadniks" rather than "Lubavitchers". He is not saying that he is right and others are wrong (and neither am I), what he is doing is pointing out apparent problems/conflicts in the knowledge and belief system. Unfortunately some people choose to placate those with various methods. His way (which I believe he considers the "Lubavitch" way) is to be fully honest about things, even if they are unfcomfortable. And when I have seemingly contradictory conclusions based on various baselines that I consider to be true, his choice of dealing with it is to explicitly accept what he sees and hears from the Rebbe, based on how he was brought up and educated, rather than choosing the alternative, and acknowledging that it doesn't make sense based on his (or our) limited שכל.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #175 on: July 11, 2019, 12:59:41 PM »
I'm confused, is this specifically a Non-Chabad problem or not?

I think that Chabad makes a far greater attempt to make it real and part of their lives. Lakewood does an amazing job of making Limud Hatorah part of the average persons life, even those who have been in the workforce for many years. The sefardic community is amazing in their respect for their leaders and fidelity to mesorah. Chassidim are able to put such significance amd meaning into otherwise parts mundane tasks. There are communities that really put a focus on chessed. Others on ahavas yisroel. The point is that there is so much to learn from so many different segments of klal yisroel that it makes no sense to negate others who have different viewpoints. ( If there is a specific hashkafic issue one can and should speak out against it, but that does not give license to write off whole groups of Yidden.)We can gain so much more by learning from everyone else to improve our own avodas Hashem.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:03:15 PM by Yard sale »

Online yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3078
  • Total likes: 1277
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #176 on: July 11, 2019, 01:03:03 PM »


( If there is a specific hashkafic issue one can speak out against it, but that does not give license to write off whole groups of Yidden.We can gain so much more by learning from everyone else to improve our own avodas Hashem.
+

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67599
  • Total likes: 16910
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #177 on: July 11, 2019, 01:23:28 PM »
Not my experience other than maybe the focus being more on גאולה שלימה than on moshiach.
יב - אֲנִי מַאֲמִין בֶּאֱמוּנָה שְׁלֵמָה. בְּבִיאַת הַמָּשִׁיחַ. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁיִּתְמַהְמֵהַּ. עִם כָּל זֶה אֲחַכֶּה לּוֹ בְּכָל יוֹם שֶׁיָּבוֹא
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17397
  • Total likes: 14334
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #178 on: July 11, 2019, 01:32:36 PM »
יב - אֲנִי מַאֲמִין בֶּאֱמוּנָה שְׁלֵמָה. בְּבִיאַת הַמָּשִׁיחַ. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁיִּתְמַהְמֵהַּ. עִם כָּל זֶה אֲחַכֶּה לּוֹ בְּכָל יוֹם שֶׁיָּבוֹא
right
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline gingyguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 419
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: I don't like to brag
Re: BM Magazine Articles
« Reply #179 on: July 11, 2019, 02:29:04 PM »


I have non chabad friends who openly say that they don't beleive moshiach is a real concept. You would never hear a Lubavitcher speak like that.
While it is possible that they dont think about it enoughI have never heard any of my friends say anything remotely similar to that.
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.